TexasCHLforum.com

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see dormitories allowing residents to keep firearms even if college campuses were to be required to allow CHLs to carry. They currently ban long guns as well as handguns and even if they weren't allowed to be 30.06 posted I don't think they would have to allow residents to store firearms in the dorm, which eliminates pretty much the entire argument against allowing people to carry on college campuses. Maybe some compromise on allowing dorms to be 30.06 posted while the rest of the campus isn't will be necessary to get this passed, and if it is I think that's fine. Frankie's argument and most people's concerns about young, drunk, irresposible college kids really refers to what goes on in a residency-type situation with people of this age, which is not the case for the older commuting students and staff that would be the ones likely to have CHLs and to carry. The worries about an AD are greatly reduced if the firearm remains concealed the entire time it is on campus.

The problem with more training is that there are always going to be stupid people. Maybe some won't pass with added training requirements but I would venture that many will. Having more training simply shifts the responsibility to the state to cure stupidity which it never will be able to. So when it fails (i.e. an idiot passes the training and then goes on to have an AD), which it will, it will then be argued that there is a problem with the training or allowing people in general to carry when the problem all along was the person. Teach the laws, talk about saftey (it was covered in my class), make sure people can handle the firearm on the range and that is all that can really be done.

As it is now, I would certainly hope an insturctor would not allow someone who doesn't know how to safely handle a firearm to pass the range portion of the course.

txmatt wrote:As it is now, I would certainly hope an insturctor would not allow someone who doesn't know how to safely handle a firearm to pass the range portion of the course.

During my CHL class there was a woman that appeared to have never held her weapon, much less fired the darn thing. (In fact, she couldn't even load her own magazines). Upon the second warning from the instructor for unsafe handling, the instructor told her that one more infraction and she would be asked to leave and that he would send an affidavit to DPS requesting that she NEVER be granted a CHL. The confusing thing is that this woman's husband, who appeared to be familiar with the safe-handling of firearms, was taking the course with her; how could he have let her attend the class so unprepared?!

Sounds to me like we should start pushing for a college class with credit hours for firearm safety. Then possibly push for some advance training classes as well. Before you laugh take a look at some of the classes offered on the campuses around Texas.

It may also provide assistance in their endevor if the organized groups around the country, pushing for campus carry would establish some form of training for classmates now. I would think in most areas NRA certified instructors could be convinced to provide some basic training at minimum or no charge just to help them get underway.

45 4 life wrote:Sounds to me like we should start pushing for a college class with credit hours for firearm safety.

An entire system is already in place for this (except for the credits): the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). Almost every public college and high school has an inactive chapter. http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubSear ... N&state=TX

- Jim

txmatt wrote:Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see dormitories allowing residents to keep firearms even if college campuses were to be required to allow CHLs to carry.

Private schools can do whatever they wish. State schools will do what the legislature tells them they must do.

I realize the UT and A&M chancellors feel they're more important than the state itself, but they're not.

KBCraig wrote:

txmatt wrote:Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see dormitories allowing residents to keep firearms even if college campuses were to be required to allow CHLs to carry.

Private schools can do whatever they wish. State schools will do what the legislature tells them they must do.

I realize the UT and A&M chancellors feel they're more important than the state itself, but they're not.

There's a lot of that going around.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

KBCraig wrote:I realize the UT and A&M chancellors feel they're more important than the state itself, but they're not.

There's a lot of that going around.

Chas.

U.Utah had to get snatched up short by the state supreme court on this same issue. Their court ruled correctly, according to their constitution and law.

As a lawyer and RKBA activist, what do you guesstimate our chances to be with the Texas Supreme Court?

great reading!

KBCraig wrote: As a lawyer and RKBA activist, what do you guesstimate our chances to be with the Texas Supreme Court?

I'm just the "activist" part but will chime in with an opinion anyway.

I don't think a case would get very far in TX. The reason is that the TX Constitution allows for the legislature to regulate the wearing of arms as follows:

Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

So if the legislature says, "no campus carry", they have the constitutional authority to do so, at least the way I read it.

I am currently a student at New Mexico Junior College as well as a former Texas CHL, soon to be current again.
I should look into this SCCC. Find out about them. Maybe join. I like what I see from that article.

KBCraig mentioned the situation in Utah. In that state, the legislature and governor passed a law saying the state colleges and universitities could not prohibit carrying of weapons by license holders. The schools fought it, and the state supreme court ruled that the schools must comply with the law, that is, allow weapons.

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,12 ... 92,00.html

I think exactly the same thing would happen in Texas, if the legislature passed such a law (a signature by Gov. Perry is a given).

- Jim

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

KBCraig wrote: As a lawyer and RKBA activist, what do you guesstimate our chances to be with the Texas Supreme Court?

So if the legislature says, "no campus carry", they have the constitutional authority to do so, at least the way I read it.

That wasn't what I was asking. I was asking about a scenario like Utah, where the legislature said campus carry was legal, but the state university tried to regulate campus carry through their student and employee handbooks.

Since no unit of government other than the legislature can regulate the carry of firearms in Texas (much like Utah), it should be clear that if we legalize campus carry, public schools can't do anything about it (at least for students; they can still set employee policies). But they're certain to try, and it will end up before the Texas Supreme Court just like Utah's case did.

I see Jim already gave much the same answer, but I wanted to clarify what I was asking.

KBCraig wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

KBCraig wrote: As a lawyer and RKBA activist, what do you guesstimate our chances to be with the Texas Supreme Court?

So if the legislature says, "no campus carry", they have the constitutional authority to do so, at least the way I read it.

That wasn't what I was asking. I was asking about a scenario like Utah, where the legislature said campus carry was legal, but the state university tried to regulate campus carry through their student and employee handbooks.

Since no unit of government other than the legislature can regulate the carry of firearms in Texas (much like Utah), it should be clear that if we legalize campus carry, public schools can't do anything about it (at least for students; they can still set employee policies). But they're certain to try, and it will end up before the Texas Supreme Court just like Utah's case did.

I see Jim already gave much the same answer, but I wanted to clarify what I was asking.

Got it.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

So if the legislature says, "no campus carry", they have the constitutional authority to do so, at least the way I read it.

So, where does the authority to prevent students living in campus housing (assuming a state school) from keeping arms at their residence come from?

KD5NRH wrote:So, where does the authority to prevent students living in campus housing (assuming a state school) from keeping arms at their residence come from?

It's a combination of the vague definition of school in PC 46.03 and the fact that whatever is not explicitly prohibited is allowed, that is, the law does not say that universities cannot prohibit weapons on campus, therefore they can do so. (Now my head hurts.)

- Jim