Is this life threatening situation?

[frankie_the_yankee]

If the guy sucker punches my mother, father, spouse, or child like that he's definitely gonna get shot.

[thejtrain]

I just had a thought. In Texas, the use of deadly force is justified on someone elses behalf if they themselves would have been justified, right? Would it be reasonable to assume that if he had been armed, and not unconscious, that he could have legally responded with deadly force? (In Texas, anyway.) Therefore, would it be reasonable to assume that on his behalf, you would then be justified to respond with deadly force FOR him? On the flip side, since the agressor was walking away, it could also be argued that the need for deadly force was no longer there. Just a pondering. So many variables.......

I'm very interested in that, so I'll be sure to ask next Saturday @ my CHL class. As for the last part (walking away) I think you're right that the need for deadly force is passed by that point, so the situation would change. If the punks were beating on his unconscious body, the threat would still be there.

JT

[stevie_d_64]

I can't see the video, but if its anything like what I can gleen from the others recounting of, it appears to be one of those situations where YOU had better be a very good witness, detainment and or use of force after an attack has been made, and if no further assault or contact is made, to me your duty would be more of a rendering aid to the victim, more than directing any overt attention to the person(s) who just committed the assault...

Now, that doesn't mean take any appreciable amount of attention away from the attacker(s)...It would be a whole new ballgame if you became the object of their attention if you jumped in to help the victim in this case...

I would find it a hard sell to a jury that your actions (being a witness, and rendering aid to an assault victim in this case) could be stretched into something that could be misconstrued as instigating or baiting someone into committing another assault, right after they injured the first victim...

And you having the ability to certainly stop that, would again be a problem for them, not you, seeings how they are on a roll in making bad decisions in your presense...

But this is just all hypothetical...

Its all about that personal and private line in the sand we all have...Sometimes it kinda fades and we need to re-draw it again from time to time...And it doesn't always get drawn in the same place...

Its like every other situation we discuss around here...You just have to put yourself in their shoes, or imagine being in the presense of something like this happening, and then think about what you realy might do in that senario...You just gotta make that personal and private gut-check...

Sometimes not drawing to stop a threat works, but I am not going to bet on it too much...Not these days...I just hope I never have to, but I am prepared enough to deal with just about anything...

[NcongruNt]

Venus, I'm inclined to agree with you to the letter. Flint, I agree with you too. I think the victim's situational awareness was nil. Flb, in my opinion (which is worth about as much as toilet paper to some, and could be used for the same thing to others), if he dropped the gun, he wouldn't have been an immediate threat. I would never have turned my back to them. But, in all honesty, I can't say for sure what I would or would not do in a similar situation. I'd just have to be there at that time and hope I made the right choices.

As long as we're delving into hypotheticals here, I'll make a couple of points. If the guy had shot and dropped the weapon, that is not an elimination of the threat. Remember, he has a "posse" there with him as well, which means you could still have several armed accomplices as a threat. It's also important to keep in mind that this is a group of BGs, and that drawing immediately may not be tactically sound. You also have to consider bystanders and the background.

Personally, I'm not sure how I would react as a third party in this situation. It would definitely depend on how I read the situation as it was happening, and the direction the conflict was heading. Dial 911 for sure, but I honestly don't know what I would do once the initial guy left and his buddies proceeded to rob the downed victim. That is a very hard decision to contemplate. My gut tells me that I would be obligated by my personal values to intercede for this fellow. The circumstances and actions of the thugs once I made my initial verbal commands would probably dictate whether I drew on them or not. I think my hand would already be on my pistol at that point. Another thing to consider is the fact that the original assailant could very well return. It's a sticky situation when you're dealing with that many people.