how many of you carry pepper spray

[HerbM]

I like OC and give away OC to my family -- especially when they either cannot or will not use firearms. I give it to friends who don't have, or forgot to bring, a firearm (it's cheaper and we cannot trust everyone to be safe with firearms).

My wife carries OC.

We have a can of Bear Spray for answering the door (even if other arms are neglected) -- fog*. OC in your hand does't frighten the UPS guy so bad.

Spares OC in both cars.

I carry OC.

It gives me another option -- most people will actually wait TOO LATE too shoot -- OC is easier to decide to unleash and pretty much a 1-shot stop* when it works.

It frequently legal even when a restricted area forces disarmament.

I carry 2 decent, lockable pocket knives, mounted on each front pocket
(same reason, and they are mostly used for utility purposes -- also, hard to cut a jammed seatbelt with a Glock.)

I always carry a cell phone -- you will use the phone for 100 emergencies for every one you need the firearm, if you need the firearm you will definitely need the phone.

I carry and give "Fog" style which:

• You can bring it out early -- in your hand -- even when deadly force is not authorized or just as a precaution when vulnerable but no actual threat is ID'd -- Condition yellow++ or orange

• Requires NO real aiming nor training

• Legal or at least less illegal when deadly force is not authorized

• Good for when an threat needs stopping but you really don't want to shoot if (for legal, personal, or any other reason) -- like a sloppy drunk who is dangerous but only stumbling or flailing around

• Good for multiple assailants

• Probably will look better if a big tough guy OCs a tiny but dangerous woman (kid, dog, etc) than if he shoots or punches her

• Works even if you're already in someone's grasp (it you can get to the trigger)

• Works to lay down a blockade for retreat (either in the open or in a retail store where you head for the back etc)

• Is pretty much a doomsday device if you are inside and hold down on it -- everybody's gonna get stoned.

More options -- options are good.

Did I mention that I like OC? But if I could only carry one item it wouldn't be the OC.


Fourth point of contact! I like that. Airborne!

[DoubleJ]

FedEx dropped off my ASP Street Defender yesterday. I like the concept of the replacable inserts, and the fact that the aluminum body is so light, but still very strong.

It can ride inside my waistband and it doesn't feel bulky at all. A long time ago, I used to carry a Mini MagLite with my keys attached to the end in the same fashion. Feels like old times.

You realize an ASP is a club, right? long as it doesn't leave your house or car, it's not illegal. otherwise...

[pedalman]

Actually, the Street Defender is a pepper spray dispenser, not the collapsible baton. I wouldn't even dream of carrying an ASP baton in Texas.

http://tinyurl.com/4ybewe

[Rokyudai]

I definitely 2nd or 3rd the recommendation of some type of mace in daily carry if possible. Others have mentioned already certain situations where it can be useful. Rather than go too far OT, I will just say that it is up to you to determine in what situation you may need to use it to defend yourself.

I will share my observation of Life Act since you mentioned you may want to purchase one: Again just my observations. I do not have a great deal of experience with other types of sprays. My father carried several different types in LE and overtime I could see benefits and drawbacks of the designs as his department would switch every few years. This could be for cost but they also didn't keep the same canister too long for fear of malfunction due to age. Anyway....

I like the design of the Life Act spray. It has a slim profile which makes it (like many other OCs) unobtrusive when wearing clipped to a belt or inside a pocket. My wife has carried it in her small Coach-style purses (however is carrying the device on her person more often now and in her lab coat than in something that can be separated from her...yeah!) and does not find it bulky in the least.

The trigger is located approximately off center through the actual device in contrast to other OC's with buttons located on the top of a canister or on the side. I believe this allows for a more natural pointing/aiming stance and better grip.

As far as a safety tab to keep the device from accidentally firing, Life Act uses a "doggy door" tab. You simply stick your finger through it to disengage it. No flipping the cover up , pulling a pin, or pressing two areas to engage. Less is more in this case.

Hope this helps. Whichever brand or format you select, purchase an inert device if they offer it to practice with. It gives you some experience of how it will handle in terms of reach and windy conditions without wasting the good stuff.

Rok

[DoubleJ]

Actually, the Street Defender is a pepper spray dispenser, not the collapsible baton. I wouldn't even dream of carrying an ASP baton in Texas.

http://tinyurl.com/4ybewe

want want wah

[HerbM]

My father carried several different types in LE and overtime I could see benefits and drawbacks of the designs as his department would switch every few years. ...
Rok

Each "type" has (of course) advantages and disadvantages. Police frequently prefer foams, gels, and other semi-solids because they can use these INSIDE the police car or within a home without driving everyone out. Police use spray a lot of the time for control, rather than hitting/wrestling/tazering/shooting and police have to stay with the suspect, or take the suspect along to the jail.

Main problem with these and to some extent is skill required (you have to hit what you aim at) and range. Streams usually go further but you still have to AIM accurately (to some extent). Streams tend to be more sloppy than foams and gels and there is more chance you will end up with the mess on the police car or yourself if you have to transport or wrestle with the subject (cuffing etc.)

There are varieties of sprays too -- from very fine long range to broad (closer to fog). Imagine the last time you used a wasp spray to "kill a wasp". Hey it was JUST a wasp (unless you are allergic) and yet you probably took several minutes setting up "the shot".
Now think of a charging violent criminal... (sometimes they NEED to be )

Fog stays in the air longer. Sprays fall out almost immediately except in enclosed spaces like the patrol car. Foam and gel basically hit and stick or fall to the ground or floor.

Fogs a extremely non-specific. Fire these outside into the wind you and you will spray yourself directly, but they have great range and an area effect. They also stay in the air longer and can be used to set up a "barrier" behind which you can retreat. Miss the subject (which is hard) and he will usually get some effects anyway. In the grasp of a rapist or criminal assault and can't get at the criminal? Turn it on and hold it down -- you'll get it too but that's better than the alternative.

Spray a fog inside and EVERYONE is going to have to leave for a while.

Fog is usually terrible for patrol police except for anti-riot : and such where you want the area effect or the requirement that everyone exit. Healthy, athletic police officers (step away from the donut) can usually manage the skill to hit the target with spray, foam or gel.

For people with poor athletic and marksmanship problems who will likely wait too long or not be very competent, the fog offers serious advantages in exchange for a pretty good chance of getting yourself (some) along with the bad guy (hopefully a LOT.)

Oh, and the grenade just takes the fog idea to the extreme. Arm the trigger, and drop or throw it.

Choice is good.

And don't get me started about stun guns.

[Venus Pax]

I started carrying OC on my keychain for the scenarios where I might hesistate to the point of my demise.

[Rokyudai]

Excellent breakdown Herb!

[longtooth]

I do & Wife & Mom do too.

[jbirds1210]

My wife and I both carry it. I prefer having OC at the gas pump and a few other flammable places

I can tell you from personal experience that the stuff hurts...but it does not shut a person down or have them kicking and screaming on the ground like some would like for you to believe. I had a great deal more respect for the stuff until I had to be sprayed with it.

A deadly attack can still be launched by someone that has taken a direct spray of OC. It is a nuisance and I don't expect much else from it.

Many feel that it takes somone on drugs or crazy to not be in immediate, horrible pain...I can honestly say that is not true.

While it can definitely buy you some distance, I would not put all of my stock in it.

Jason

[HerbM]

My wife and I both carry it. I prefer having OC at the gas pump and a few other flammable places

I can tell you from personal experience that the stuff hurts...but it does not shut a person down or have them kicking and screaming on the ground like some would like for you to believe. I had a great deal more respect for the stuff until I had to be sprayed with it.

A deadly attack can still be launched by someone that has taken a direct spray of OC. It is a nuisance and I don't expect much else from it.

Many feel that it takes somone on drugs or crazy to not be in immediate, horrible pain...I can honestly say that is not true.

While it can definitely buy you some distance, I would not put all of my stock in it.

Jason

It's worthwhile going to YouTube and searching for "pepper spray" then watch a bunch of the videos, everything from idiots to a (fairly standard looking) Marine exercise where the candidate is first sprayed and the required to run a course of simulated "fighting".

You can work through it if you don't get hit by enough, but it is very hard to see or do much of anything if you do get enough.

No one should expect anything to be 100% effective -- even a center of mass, through and through 12 gauge shotgun (2 o'clock front to 8 o'clock back) has left a criminal able to both FIGHT and ESCAPE (turned himself in with his lawyer the next day.) Don't bet on such things happening but nothing is perfect.

Sometimes though, an early display of aggression or use of non-lethal force can prevent the need to go further.

We have to be smart: Don't use a BB gun on an elephant, nor a .44 Magnum on a toddler.

Use the force required. Shoot until the threat goes away. If it isn't working, try another method. Keep fighting. Make the threat STOP.

[ctxpta]

Thought some of you may want to know some of the legal issues with OC carry. Of course a good attorney may be willing to argue any size OC is a personal Defense size!!

According to PC CH 46 definitions:
(1)"Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is (note the NOT LIMITED) not limited to the following: (a)blackjack (b)nightstick (c) mace (NOT the chemical device) (d)tomahawk

(14)"Chemical dispensing device" as a weapon is defined as a device OTHER THAN a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.

Subsequently PC 46.03 Places Weapons Prohibited(a) a person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly. or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in section 46.05 (a)

Subsequently PC 46.05 Prohibited Weapons (a) a person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (8) Chemical Dispensing Device

If any of you have your CHL which most of you do REFER to the little booklet that you were given as a part of your packet called TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS and selected statutes. If you get caught with one of these and you are a CHL holder and do NOT have a defense to prosecution then the DA WILL say you should have known!

Hope turns the light on for a few...I know some will carry anyway or have a good attorney!
Also, as I teach in my class...better to have to defend myself in court (on most things) than have no chance to defend myself by going 6 feet under!

[Mike1951]

I don't believe there ARE any issues with OC carry.

(14)"Chemical dispensing device" as a weapon is defined as a device OTHER THAN a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.

Does not refer to the size dispenser that would be carried on the person.

Subsequently PC 46.05 Prohibited Weapons (a) a person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (8) Chemical Dispensing Device

Neither does this.

[ctxpta]

If there was only one way to view it I guess we wouldn't have the supreme court currently looking at the DC gun ban law that has been in place for over 20 years! With as many DA that have arrested people for carrying a weapon in there car after the Traveling law was defined over 2 years ago and those that are still arresting those carrying under the new law when it is not a crime you want to say that the below does not give the DA something to argue in court if it is something OTHER than a key chain unit capable of spraying more than one time??? THE OTHER THAN tells you that there are some out there that are illegal to posses. Since it does NOT specifically tell you a 2oz or 3oz or 4oz for size etc then ANY DA has the ability and right to argue and potentially win...ANY Attorney's please chime in about your ability to argue this statement.

(14)"Chemical dispensing device" as a weapon is defined as a device OTHER THAN a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.

Does not refer to the size dispenser that would be carried on the person.

Subsequently PC 46.05 Prohibited Weapons (a) a person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells: (8) Chemical Dispensing Device

Neither does this.[/quote]

[Skiprr]

Matt, I'm trying to get my head around this.

Are you saying, as a CHL instructor, that you advise your students NOT to carry OC?