srothstein wrote:
As a slight topic drift, this is even more an argument to stop the so called war on drugs than it is about the militarization of police. Another good man has been sacrificed to this cause, which can never be won.
exactly!
Not quite exactly, there is also another man whose life has been trashed and may me lost to murder by the state. I'm all for the death penalty but for murders, not people who are to best of their knowledge simply defending themselves.
Otherwise I agree. The War On Drugs II, (WOD I was prohibition), has caused far more problems than it could ever cure.
Bill Harvey
License to Carry Handgun - Indiana, since Aug 1997
CHL - Texas, since Aug 2011
Thomas wrote:I was doing a bit of searching in the forums and came across this. I never heard of Ryan Frederick before, so I looked to see what eventually happened to him. In 2009 he was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced 10 years.
This makes my blood boil
Things that a regular gun-owner can learn from this is:
- Don't do drugs
- Don't shoot blindly (through a door)
Shooting blindly through a door is shooting at something outside your home. In this case the perp, (i. e. cop in this case), was partially in the house. Maybe you wouldn't shoot in this situation but I know I would, and I'd guess most people caught in a similar situation also would.
What makes my blood boil is when people defend behavior of police regardless of what thug tactics is used.
Bill Harvey
License to Carry Handgun - Indiana, since Aug 1997
CHL - Texas, since Aug 2011
Thomas wrote:I was doing a bit of searching in the forums and came across this. I never heard of Ryan Frederick before, so I looked to see what eventually happened to him. In 2009 he was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced 10 years.
This makes my blood boil
Things that a regular gun-owner can learn from this is:
- Don't do drugs
- Don't shoot blindly (through a door)
Shooting blindly through a door is shooting at something outside your home. In this case the perp, (i. e. cop in this case), was partially in the house. Maybe you wouldn't shoot in this situation but I know I would, and I'd guess most people caught in a similar situation also would.
Please consider other options (mentally in advance) so if it ever happens to you, you don't make the same mistake IMO.
wharvey wrote:What makes my blood boil is when people defend behavior of police regardless of what thug tactics is used.
If it's someone in the public, they are ignorant. If it's someone in the government, it's politics (which is still spawned from ignorance). Either way, I agree with you, it makes my blood boil too
It seems like a no-win situation. A person could kill a real cop on a no-knock search, or surrender to bogus cops who were criminals. You could be completely legal and the victim of a rotten informant or rumors. Many crime victims have been targeted because they were thought to have bundles of money, which they did not actually have.
Not everyone can flee the house without leaving others undefended. It's a good argument for very secure doors and being able to call 911 to find out what is really going on, if possible.
The worst part of this is that somewhere the original criminal (the burglar) is sitting back laughing about how he traded a "story" to get his freedom and an officer got killed as a result.
How do you explain a dog named Sauer without first telling the story of a Puppy named Sig?
R.I.P. Sig, 08/21/2019 - 11/18/2019
Out of curiosity, is there a reason to nab the BG in the home vs. grabbing him as he walks out the door in the morning bleary-eyed, tired and with a do-nut stuck in his face as he fumbles to pull the front door closed on his way to work? Or someplace else that where he doesn't have home-court advantage? Just seems like a poor strategy bust the door down and storm the castle. I concede there may be situations where you need to get into someplace ASAP to save lives, maybe others? Is this a poor judgment call, poor intelligence gathering, legal requirement, other or just plain situational?
I'm scared as heck of how this could turn out if it happened to me. I'm not a BG, but what if I get mistaken for one or someone comes to the wrong door because of bad intel what do I do?
Dear God, what if it happens to me?
What if I don't have time to call 911?
What if I'm awoken from a dead sleep and disoriented with loud banging and shouting, dogs barking etc. I'm hard of hearing and sleep with a CPAP (think wind-tunnel attached to your face), so this adds to my confusion as I try to make sense of it all
What do I do when shadowy figures bust into my dark home shouting, banging, echoing, with guns leading the way...
What the "heck" is going on?!
Are they trying to kill me?!
Do I shoot now or wait and maybe get shot?! Act before reacting?!
Quick decision: I'm the good-guy here, don't smell smoke, don't see firemen with hoses, see guys in all black with black guns... Home invasion? Mistake? WHAT DO I DO?!
I don't want to die!
Let loose the 12ga? Boom-boom-boom-ringing ears-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom... until the threat is stopped, drum is empty, or I myself am disabled/dead?
I pray I'm never put in the position to make this choice... And that if I am ever mistaken/seen as a BG that they just take me in front-lawn, parking-lot at work, biggie-burger, or something like that.
:(
If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children will have peace.
Thomas Paine
This is why the elitist want us disarmed, They demand the right to come into our homes and see if we are behaving behind out closed doors in the ways prescribed by the states. If the Obamian state doesn't disarm us, they will not be able to come into our homes freely to inspect us, our homes and our life styles. The right to arm ourselves is a lot more than the ability to go deer hunting.
Police don't seem to do this as much in places where the populations tend to be armed. The answer to incidents like this in Chicago, is; "This is why we need to disarm the Citizens" . In free states the the response is more likely: "What is the safer and best way to deliver or arrest a suspect?"
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy
Not having been in such a situation, I can only speculate.
But I do not believe that if I woke up to a foot kicking through my front-door panel that my first reaction would be to flee out the back-door. My first thought would probably be to start putting shots through that door, as the alternative would most likely be me getting shot in the back as I tried to run away (I would automatically assume that anyone bold enough to kick in my door was armed).
I noticed that this is an old thread being resurrected and that the guy did indeed get convicted of a lesser charge. But this still makes me wonder how the department justified any sort of warrant for breaking into the guys house for such a reportedly trivial-charge (growing of minor amount of marijuana), without any substantiation to a judge/magistrate supporting any additional evidence. Maybe the department did show that in the actual trial?
Life NRA
USMC 76-93
USAR 99-07 (Retired)
OEF 06-07
Purplehood wrote:I noticed that this is an old thread being resurrected and that the guy did indeed get convicted of a lesser charge. But this still makes me wonder how the department justified any sort of warrant for breaking into the guys house for such a reportedly trivial-charge (growing of minor amount of marijuana), without any substantiation to a judge/magistrate supporting any additional evidence.
Being convicted of any felony is still a felony. More people go down at the federal level for lying to investigators or wire fraud than actual crimes like robbery and murder.
The police most likely had a valid warrant, on the testimony of their unnamed informant (likely a criminal). This business about forced intrusions to seize evidence has been going on for decades, and probably there was a lot of it during Prohibition I.
BTW, while everyone loves to hate Obama, the underlying incident took place well before the 2008 presidential election (when Hillary Clinton was supposed to be the next president), and I doubt Obama had much to say about local police procedures in Virginia—incidentally a paragon of the RKBA, home of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington.
Yes there are other options, such as run or hiding in a closet. I however believe that that my home is my castle a d violent entry deserves a violent response. As others noted, the police had other options also.
Bill Harvey
License to Carry Handgun - Indiana, since Aug 1997
CHL - Texas, since Aug 2011
Yes there are other options, such as run or hiding in a closet. I however believe that that my home is my castle a d violent entry deserves a violent response. As others noted, the police had other options also.
...I may be found dead, but it won't be hiding under the bed...running out the back door, or just sitting there doing nothing...and it turns out NOT to be the po-po.......some things in life are just risky, and need wisdom to sort out...I've already heard that we'll all die someday, so I'll take a risk, and I pray for the wisdom to act rightly...what more can we do???
We could try electing politicians who did not vaguely talk about "war on crime" and "war on drugs"—and who pay more than lip service to the constitution and its principles.
Those who are really courageous could recognize the racist nature of the so-called war on drugs. This is not so obvious now, but it was when marijuana was first made illegal.
We've tried every other form of idiocy, so why not move in the direction of freedom?
- Jim
Fear, anger, hatred, and greed. The devil's all-you-can-eat buffet.
...this scenario is just ONE in this country, that, because it wasn't handled at the ballot box, will have to be handled at our front doors, in our streets...across the country...seamusTX has the root of it...but it's harvest time when we read things like this story...time to get off our duffs and plant something different...freedom's a good idea...for men/women of courage and convictions, who can put down the remote and defend it at the barbershop and the ballotbox...before the issue knocks on our doors...
Threads like this, stories like these, are part of the reason I have video with voice covering my home and car. And a Portable digital voice recorder with my when I’m riding. I may take a ride, I may sit in jail for weeks, but at my trial, it will NOT just be my words against their words.
Memories on both sides are fallible. Even if both sides are “telling the truth” timings and a fog of events under pressure can make what gets written down on reports, or “sworn” to in court months later have a much different appearance to a jury, then the reality of the moment.
Companion animal Microchips, quality name brand chips, lifetime registration, Low cost just $10~12, not for profit, most locations we can come to you. We cover eight counties McLennan, Hill, Bell, Coryell, Falls, Bosque, Limestone, Lampasas
Contact we.chip.pets@gmail.com
bronco78 wrote:Threads like this, stories like these, are part of the reason I have video with voice covering my home and car. And a Portable digital voice recorder with my when I’m riding. I may take a ride, I may sit in jail for weeks, but at my trial, it will NOT just be my words against their words.
Memories on both sides are fallible. Even if both sides are “telling the truth” timings and a fog of events under pressure can make what gets written down on reports, or “sworn” to in court months later have a much different appearance to a jury, then the reality of the moment.
...excellent ideas...can they be secured in such a way that they can't be "accidentally" erased???
