TexasCHLforum.com

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

Keith B wrote:Here is another story http://www.fox6.com/news/local/story.as ... d&rss=tick. The DA is urging everyone to just sit back and let the investigation run its course.

In the article, it states the driver window was shattered on the off-duty officers car and his wife who is a San Diego dispatcher was with him. There are some interesting things about the woman listed in this article, including she was facing a pending drunk driving charge. She is claiming memory lapses of the event and was not happy about being forced to take a sobriety test when the off-duty officer didn't have to. She was also driving on a suspended license according to police.

Some of that info may be relevant to whether the shooting was justified. Or not.

Remember, when using force or deadly force, the reasonableness of one's actions are judged based upon what you knew at the time. I do not think the cop knew about the other person's DWI status, suspended license, etc. when he employed deadly force.

But on the other hand, a person with those types of traffic issues hanging over them may well have more general behavior problems that can create situations that other, more well behaved people, will avoid.

In my 57 years, no one, cop or private citizen, has "actually tried" to shoot me - yet. Maybe it's because I'm a nice guy, hey?

Fixed it for ya.

She got off lighter than Ida Mae Delaney, the cleaning lady killed by an intoxicated off duty HPD cop in the 80's. The cop and three others LEO's, who had just left a bar, chased Delaney down the SW freeway in a fit of drunken road rage, where she stopped hoping to find refuge at a Texas DOT construction site in the early a.m. hours. She was able to shoot the cop before she died, and best I can recall, shot first. He survived his wound to the stomach.

casingpoint wrote:She got off lighter than Ida Mae Delaney, the cleaning lady killed by an intoxicated off duty HPD cop in the 80's. The cop and three others LEO's, who had just left a bar, chased Delaney down the SW freeway in a fit of drunken road rage, where she stopped hoping to find refuge at a Texas DOT construction site in the early a.m. hours. She was able to shoot the cop before she died, and best I can recall, shot first. He survived his wound to the stomach.

IMO, it is grossly unfair to try and draw parallels to this event, (given the small amount of information we have).

As you know, the "media" has a bad habit of printing that which is "sensational", often times omitting certain elements or facts. These days, I take all first reports with a 2 pound "grain of salt".

Waiting to see.

Don't want to make any judgments but the preponderance of the "information" in this case does indicate some disturbing information.

1. This is an off-duty incident out of the officer's jurisdiction.

2. There has been no information that contact was made with Oceanside PD before contact was made with citizen.

3. Police statements have indicated that citizen was unarmed.

4. No affirmation has been made that officer was threatened by deadly force (real or probable).

5. No charges have been filed on citizen as of this time.

Below is a link to local news video from this past Friday, 4 April 2008.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/ ... 3&src=news

RHZig wrote:As a police officer in one more month I can see why citizens don't trust us like they once did.

Read, heed, and share with your classmates and future fellow officers:

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2008 ... olice.html

Neat touch by the prosecutor to say they aren't going to release any information until the investigation is completed and then the police release dirt on the woman to the news to prejudice the public. This thing pretty much stinks.

Also regardless of any provocation by the woman, the officer violated Gun Safety Rule 3. He did not pay attention to what was in front of the target, an 8 year old boy. Regardless of anything else, he was negligent in shooting the boy.

Here is new information on off-duty OIS in Oceanside, CA by San Diego officer. First link is video of car driven by women and her son who were shot by officer and commentary/interview with her lawyer. Second link is news of case being referred to grand jury.

http://www.fox6.com/news/local/story.as ... b&rss=tick

http://www.fox6.com/news/local/story.as ... 0&rss=tick

RHZig wrote:As a police officer in one more month I can see why citizens don't trust us like they once did.



But I am sure there is more to the story.

Well, cops are supposed to be role models. The public puts them on pedestals as fine upstanding citizens, otherwise we wouldn't feel safe giving cops the authority to enforce laws we might not even know about. When we hear about this kind of stuff, where an officer abuses their badge or otherwise makes a chain of really bad decisions, the image is tarnished and we start questioning if they really deserve the authority we give them. It's a sad commonplace. You see the same thing in our military; Abu Ghraib, Haditha, etc tarnish our mental image of Mother Green as fighting for the ideals we all uphold, and make it look more like a bunch of scared egotistical teens and twenty-somethings with automatic weapons.The truth is a little of both; we're all human, and therefore fallible. We also have imperfect knowledge. We all do our job the best we can based on what we know now. If a police officer second-guesses himself or the situation, he could end up dead. He makes a decision to act based on what he knows, and if that decision is to draw and fire, he does so without hesitation.

I guess what I'm saying is that cops have a difficult job that extends far beyond public perception, and this guy deserves the benefit of the doubt, which is what he is being given, until such time as it can be shown his actions violated the rules he has to follow as a peace officer.

Another side to the story????????????? Excuse me while I throw up!!! Shooting at an unarmed woman and her child???????? No other side to a story like this unless you are blinded by team spirit.

I'm gonna reserve judgment here. We don't know what precipitated this incident. From what we're seeing, it's understandable that folks want to hang this cop out to dry (and if what we're seeing is indeed the whole truth, I'd be the first one to bring out the tar and feathers).

However...

There is such a thing as vehicular assault. A car can be, and has been in past, used as a deadly weapon against not just pedestrians but also against other motorists. One-ton-plus of steel, rubber, and plastic makes a handy weapon.

Do we know that the woman attempted to use her car as a weapon? Do we know that she didn't? Do we know whether the officer believed she was trying to hurt him? If so, do we know whether such a belief was reasonable and/or justifiable?

The answer to all of these is a solid, resounding "no." We don't know.

Please refrain from setting up the gallows before the jury has even convened.

Do we know that she didn't (use her car as a weapon)?

And if we don't know she didn't, then if follows she did?

That lil' ole California gal certainly warn't no nun:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nort ... silva.html

Let's just say she did try to run over him. Why was he shooting the additional shots into the car as she fled? She was no longer a threat to him or anyone else. He was actually a threat to the public at that point. I will say this, I ever drive into a parking lot and see a person shooting a gun at a fleeing car, I will turn the shooter into a hood ornament and not care if the guy was an off duty cop or not. A cop is only a cop when he is behaving in a cop like manner. He acts like a thug and he is no better than the gang banger wearing a grill and sporting dred locks.

I don't see how anyone can attempt to justify an officer loosing his temper and opening fire in a public parking lot, on an unarmed woman and her child. This guy needs removed from the police force immediately. Unfortunately, this guy will just show up at some other police department, ready willing and able to loose his temper on a different innocent victim. Hopefully it isn't one of your wives or daughters. Only god could help him if it where mine.

The cop's probably got a screw loose. She a crack head. The way the PD will play it, two wrongs make a right. Case almost closed.

It sounds like both the cop and the woman made some serious mistakes that day and the kid was caught in the middle.

Her high BAC likely led to her bad decisions, and the cops anger led to his.

03Lightningrocks wrote:I will say this, I ever drive into a parking lot and see a person shooting a gun at a fleeing car, I will turn the shooter into a hood ornament and not care if the guy was an off duty cop or not.

I hope you're just upset at the perceived facts of this case. This scenario will get you indicted at the very least. There are plenty of circumstances where a person (LEO or CHL) could be legitimately firing at a fleeing car.

Chas.