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I knew healthcare was the wrong field to be in.....

dukesean wrote:I don't think I'll ever understand why people who are so smart and have access to all sorts of information, studies, etc. continue to believe that gun control is an effective measure against crime, DESPITE the mounds of evidence from journals, studies, the CDC and DOJ, arguing the contrary. I would be more apt to at least respect their views if there wasn't so much empirical evidence, but personally I feel it's as delusional as those holocaust deniers, and just as shameful.

i think people see what they like to see and choose to debate the validity of any counter argument. and i also find that many people nowadays choose not to see the oppositions point of view, they'd rather just knock them down with the first half decent argument they have. i can certainly see where gun banners are coming from, but i choose to respectful disagree.

perhaps if the world was united we would be without the right to choose to arm ourselves, but isn't there something in the bible about how the unity of the world under one is indicative of the coming of the end times?

brainneeded wrote:

dukesean wrote:I don't think I'll ever understand why people who are so smart and have access to all sorts of information, studies, etc. continue to believe that gun control is an effective measure against crime, DESPITE the mounds of evidence from journals, studies, the CDC and DOJ, arguing the contrary. I would be more apt to at least respect their views if there wasn't so much empirical evidence, but personally I feel it's as delusional as those holocaust deniers, and just as shameful.

i think people see what they like to see and choose to debate the validity of any counter argument. and i also find that many people nowadays choose not to see the oppositions point of view, they'd rather just knock them down with the first half decent argument they have. i can certainly see where gun banners are coming from, but i choose to respectful disagree.

perhaps if the world was united we would be without the right to choose to arm ourselves, but isn't there something in the bible about how the unity of the world under one is indicative of the coming of the end times?

People who are this smart and have access to information continue to be anti-gun because they are smart and have access to information. Bloomberg knows that the majority of his constituency (no offense to the average New Yorker) see and read news stories every day about gun murders. He also knows that the argument "if the criminal didn't have access to a gun he wouldn't have been able to kill" sounds better to the masses than "if the other guy or someone else around them were armed they could stop it". Option A, without considering the TRUE intent of the 2A, leads to no change in the daily lives of 75% of over 90% of this country's population who do not carry guns, whether they own them or not. Option B creates "the Wild West".

We know this isn't true; states that allow open carry are not lawless frontier states; nor are those states that have "shall-issue" concealed carry laws. However, you cannot escape the fact that it is very persuasive for someone frightened of guns.

I may have mentioned my g/f before; she is what I would call a true hoplophobe. She quite simply is frightened of handguns no matter whose hip they are on, including LEOs. She understands why I have a handgun, even to the extent of agreeing with the anti-tyrannical angle of the 2A (I just might need my gun to defend myself from my own government). But she just can't get over being very frightened of my handgun. I've met others who are similarly skittish, a couple of which fear guns with good reason. One friend from church was shot by a 9mm as a young man in Houston; if that were my first experience with a handgun I'd probably steer clear too. The other grew up in Minnesota where a permit is required to buy, and her first words when she saw the handbag I kept my guns in were "I hope you have a permit for those" I think she'll be the easy one; she fired my .22 and said it was fun. But these are the kind of people you have to convince. I've read books worth of online information on how to go about it (and it will come in handy with my g/f; it'll be kind of awkward if I have to hide the handgun when she comes over, and always hug her on my weak side ) and I'm making steps, but back to my original point, these are the people whom politicians like Bloomberg seek out on their campaign trails.

Liko81 wrote: People who are this smart and have access to information continue to be anti-gun because they are smart and have access to information. Bloomberg knows that the majority of his constituency (no offense to the average New Yorker) see and read news stories every day about gun murders.

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I may have mentioned my g/f before; she is what I would call a true hoplophobe. She quite simply is frightened of handguns no matter whose hip they are on, including LEOs.

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I've read books worth of online information on how to go about it (and it will come in handy with my g/f; it'll be kind of awkward if I have to hide the handgun when she comes over, and always hug her on my weak side ) and I'm making steps, but back to my original point, these are the people whom politicians like Bloomberg seek out on their campaign trails.

With all due respect, these people didn't get that way by accident. They are the products of a long standing campaign to, as I put it, "arrest the development" of people's political awareness at a near childlike level.

What we used to call "citizenship" is no longer taught in schools in any form that we would recognize. Where once people were jealous of giving the government too much power, people today willingly hand power over to the government. And it is not only in the area of gun rights. Every penny we pay in taxes represents a unit of power and/or freedom that we are handing over to the government. Yet many people today believe that if they pay more taxes, the government will somehow "empower" them to do X, Y, or Z.

If you're talking real power, and real freedom, it's represented by the money in your pocket, the property you own, and the gun on your hip. (That's if you have managed to retain the right to have one.) Everything else is just part of the big shell game.

The government knows this. In fact, they know it well. Especially left wingers like Hillary, Obama, most of the Democrats, and even a good number of Republicans. And they do their best to make sure you don't.

One thing I will give to Ron Paul is that he is fully aware of the huge con game that is being played out, and to his credit, he is as fierce an opponent of it that you will find anywhere. I disagree with him in a number of areas, but I am with him 100% on this.