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Charles L. Cotton wrote:Perhaps the Utah employer needs to learn of the new Texas "Castle Doctrine." Is pushing past someone entering "unlawfully and with force?" Pushing is certainly "with force" and if the homeowner said anything to indicate the salesman wasn't to enter, then .

What about 30.02(a)(1)? He enters without effective consent, and commits assault (22.01(a)(3) if not any other, especially if the actor is male and the victim female) in the process, making it burglary and opening up the deadly force can of worms.

As long as the person blocking him is inside the house, then 30.02(b)(1) would clarify that only part of him needs to enter to qualify and some part will have to in order to use force.

As to castle doctrine, I don't see how the walls of a private residence wouldn't count as notice under 30.05(b)(2)(B), (enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders) making the entry unlawful, and "with force" has already been covered.

KD5NRH wrote:As to castle doctrine, I don't see how the walls of a private residence wouldn't count as notice under 30.05(b)(2)(B), (enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders) making the entry unlawful, and "with force" has already been covered.

An LEO in Tennessee explained to me that the "breaking" in "breaking and entering" doesn't mean they broke a window or a doorknob. It means they "broke through" the barrier of the structure. In the case of a home, it means walking over the threshold, and then entered the premises.

If that's true, the salesman in question here undoubtedly was guilty of "breaking and entering". At least, that's what I was told...

My neighbor and I were talking about this today. We both refuse to open the door to anyone soliciting unless it's of the girl scout variety. It's harder for them to force their way in if you don't even unlock & open the door.

JMO

Texas does not have a crime called "breaking and entering." Here is the definition of burglary:

PC § 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person:
(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault; or
(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or
(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.

Note that force is not an element, but intent is. It could be difficult to argue that a salesman who was actually employed as such had the intent of committing a felony, theft, or assault.

The "castle doctrine" justification is entirely separate from this, as is often the case in Texas law.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:Note that force is not an element, but intent is. It could be difficult to argue that a salesman who was actually employed as such had the intent of committing a felony, theft, or assault.

22.01. ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(3) intentionally or knowingly causes physical contact with another when the person knows or should reasonably believe that the other will regard the contact as offensive or provocative.

Pushing someone out of the way, when that person is blocking your entry into their home, is hard to construe as inoffensive.

I see no distinction from a kick burgalr here. These boys are going to get it in Texas.

There have been cases where people selling things door to door have committed crimes ,there was a guy selling magazine subscriptions that raped a woman and I can't remember if he murdered her afterwards,just cause they say their something don't mean they are,some guy pushes his way into my house will be held at the end of my 45 til cops pick him up if he's smart enough to do what I tell him.As far as women even the armed ones don't open the door once you do somebody can overpower you in a milisecond,guys too,the intercom is a great idea

Venus Pax wrote:My neighbor and I were talking about this today. We both refuse to open the door to anyone soliciting unless it's of the girl scout variety.JMO

I'm even wary of the latter. Those Girl Scouts can be mighty aggressive during cookie-selling season

DParker wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:My neighbor and I were talking about this today. We both refuse to open the door to anyone soliciting unless it's of the girl scout variety.JMO

I'm even wary of the latter. Those Girl Scouts can be mighty aggressive during cookie-selling season

Mars & I were discussing this last night. He reminded me of a woman opening the door to a man in a Reliant Energy uniform AND driving a Reliant Energy truck that knocked at her door. He kidnapped her and brought her to an ATM to withdraw cash. (I think her baby was present for all of this as well, but I'm not certain.) As it turns out, he had been terminated from Reliant earlier that day.

I've decided that I will not open the door even to service employees unless I've specifically called them.

RugerP345 wrote:I had a similar incident a few weeks ago. As I pulled up to my home, I noticed a guy on the corner with a clipboard and an ADT sign looking around, looking for a "sale".
I keep my pistol locked up in my truck safe during the day, and I immediately arm as soon as I get home.

That's a bad idea. I hope no one comes up to your window at a stop light wanting your vehicle. You should arm yourself as soon as you enter your vehicle.

Likewise, if someone did that to me, he'd be staring at the muzzle of a 1911. If he did it to my wife, she would probably sick the pit bull on him first, and then draw down on him. She's not as nice as I am.

dukalmighty wrote:There have been cases where people selling things door to door have committed crimes ,there was a guy selling magazine subscriptions that raped a woman and I can't remember if he murdered her afterwards,just cause they say they're something don't mean they are,some guy pushes his way into my house will be held at the end of my 45 til cops pick him up if he's smart enough to do what I tell him.As far as women even the armed ones don't open the door once you do somebody can overpower you in a milisecond,guys too,the intercom is a great idea

I think part of the point is, that even if the guy is a legitimate salesman, there is no way to know that at the time.
it's like Joe Horn didn't know the guys were illegal aliens, he didn't know they were repeat offenders, he didn't know one had been deported. He did know they were commiting a crime right then and thar!

I wonder if they're doing this stunt with women only or men too? I can assure you they would regret trying this at my house if I was home. And I don't necessarily mean it would go to guns right off.

The best reason yet to make sure that you get a good storm door with clear, tempered glass.
Fullview of the person at your door. Shows your "full intention" to protect your home to the person at your door. And it gives your dog(s) a good look as well.