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roff wrote:so if my gun doesnt have a magazine disconnect
and i put a fully loaded magazine in cock the gun
release the magazine and theres a round chambered
then the gun wont shoot?

i would have assumed it would shoot since it took the bullet from the magazine

A weapon with a properly functioning Magazine Disconnect will not fire. The presence of a cartridge in the chamber has no effect, but... is in fact the entire point of the feature.

flintknapper wrote:

roff wrote:so if my gun doesnt have a magazine disconnect
and i put a fully loaded magazine in cock the gun
release the magazine and theres a round chambered
then the gun wont shoot?

i would have assumed it would shoot since it took the bullet from the magazine

A weapon with a properly functioning Magazine Disconnect will not fire. The presence of a cartridge in the chamber has no effect, but... is in fact the entire point of the feature.

Flintknapper is correct, but his answer may be a bit confusing because it addresses the function of a gun with a properly functioning magazine disconnect, and roff's question was built around a gun without this feature.

To answer roff's question directly, a gun with no magazine disconnect in the situation he described will fire when the trigger is pressed.

Here's the story:

In the circumstance you described (magazine removed, round chambered, hammer cocked, trigger pulled and we'll assume any manual safety off):

1) A gun without a properly functioning magazine disconnect (safety) will fire when the trigger is pressed.
2) A gun with a properly functioning magazine disconnect (safety) will not fire when the trigger is pressed.

Excaliber wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

roff wrote:so if my gun doesnt have a magazine disconnect
and i put a fully loaded magazine in cock the gun
release the magazine and theres a round chambered
then the gun wont shoot?

i would have assumed it would shoot since it took the bullet from the magazine

A weapon with a properly functioning Magazine Disconnect will not fire. The presence of a cartridge in the chamber has no effect, but... is in fact the entire point of the feature.

Flintknapper is correct, but his answer may be a bit confusing because it addresses the function of a gun with a properly functioning magazine disconnect, and roff's question was built around a gun without this feature.

To answer roff's question directly, a gun with no magazine disconnect in the situation he described will fire when the trigger is pressed.

Here's the story:

In the circumstance you described (magazine removed, round chambered, hammer cocked, trigger pulled and we'll assume any manual safety off):

1) A gun without a properly functioning magazine disconnect (safety) will fire when the trigger is pressed.
2) A gun with a properly functioning magazine disconnect (safety) will not fire when the trigger is pressed.

Thank You, for the clarification. My answer did actually make the issue more confusing.

Hopefully, everyone understands now.

Does anyone know if a list has been compiled of those pistols that WILL shoot without a magazine?

Specifically (for me) will a Glock 19 shoot without a magazine?

Thanks!

Abraham wrote:Specifically (for me) will a Glock 19 shoot without a magazine?

Yes.

Abraham wrote:Does anyone know if a list has been compiled of those pistols that WILL shoot without a magazine?

I have never found such a list---but then again, I never sought such.

Some pistols are released by their manufacturers in versions with magazine disconnects/safeties, and other versions without such features. And it may be possible for such safeties to be added or removed by a gunsmith.

Ultimately, the user is responsible for knowing and understanding his equipment.

Abraham wrote:Does anyone know if a list has been compiled of those pistols that WILL shoot without a magazine?

For any specific pistol, I'd check the owner's manual. It should mention if it has (or at least is available with) a magazine disconnect. If there is no mention of a magazine disconnect, then I think it's fairly safe to assume that it isn't an option on that model of pistol.

Abraham wrote:Specifically (for me) will a Glock 19 shoot without a magazine?

As yerasimos mentioned, yes, and I wanted to add that this probably, combined with the fact that you have to pull the trigger on a Glock to field-strip it, is the reason that the number of NDs with Glocks is so high. People yank the magazines then pull the trigger trying to get it apart, having forgotten that they chambered a round and couldn't be bothered to do a chamber check.

yerasimos wrote:

Abraham wrote:Specifically (for me) will a Glock 19 shoot without a magazine?

Yes.

Abraham wrote:Does anyone know if a list has been compiled of those pistols that WILL shoot without a magazine?

I have never found such a list---but then again, I never sought such.

Some pistols are released by their manufacturers in versions with magazine disconnects/safeties, and other versions without such features. And it may be possible for such safeties to be added or removed by a gunsmith.

Ultimately, the user is responsible for knowing and understanding his equipment.

If you have any doubts about the function of a given pistol, it's simple enough to find out for sure:

Take it to a range.
Point it at the backstop.
Chamber a round.
Remove the magazine.
Disengage any manual safeties.
Pull the trigger.

If you hear a "bang" and feel recoil there is no functional magazine disconnect.
If the trigger doesn't do anything (the hammer or firing pin doesn't move) it's likely that the gun has a functional magazine disconnect.

Even if a given pistol has this feature, it doesn't change the absolute requirement to adhere fully to all 4 rules of gun safety at all times.

The XD manual says, "REMOVING THE MAGAZINE DOES NOT UNLOAD THE FIREARM NOR DOES IT ENGAGE A SAFETY, THE FIREARM IS NOT UNLOADED UNTIL THE MAGAZINE IS REMOVED AND THE CHAMBER IS EMPTY."

Page 3, in red!

roff wrote:it was an xd9

The XD does NOT have a magazine disconnect, so it will fire without a magazine.

How about we just use our heads and assume a gun is always loaded and will fire when ever the trigger is pulled and there will be no room for accidents. Thats the best way to answer these questions.

If you have not read the 4 rules then please go read them.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =23&t=1801

you don't even have to go to the range, it can be safely done at home.

Remove magazine
Visually Check chamber for EMPTY
Manually Check chamber for EMPTY
Point gun in safe direction (I use a stack of phone books)
Pull the trigger
If the hammer moves at all; either the disconnect is not working or their isn't one.

Or you could just read the maunal before using the gun.

I know the Ruger P95 that I have will fire without a magazine. As stated in the maunal, you can load and shoot one round at a time, and I have.

Wildscar wrote:How about we just use our heads and assume a gun is always loaded and will fire when ever the trigger is pulled and there will be no room for accidents. Thats the best way to answer these questions.

If you have not read the 4 rules then please go read them.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =23&t=1801

Whether or not the pistol will fire without a magazine can be a critical piece of knowledge during an encounter that requires a reload. One should know if his weapon is entirely out of action during the reloading process, or if it could still be fired if needed.

Everyone should know with absolute certainty how their weapon will function under these conditions.

TX_shooter wrote:you don't even have to go to the range, it can be safely done at home.

Remove magazine
Visually Check chamber for EMPTY
Manually Check chamber for EMPTY
Point gun in safe direction (I use a stack of phone books)
Pull the trigger
If the hammer moves at all; either the disconnect is not working or their isn't one.

Or you could just read the maunal before using the gun.

I know the Ruger P95 that I have will fire without a magazine. As stated in the maunal, you can load and shoot one round at a time, and I have.

Not all pistols have hammers (some are striker fired), so another method that can be performed at home ...is as above.... except:

Drop a common pencil (with eraser) or a wooden dowel down the barrel and pull the trigger.

This is best done pointing the weapon straight upward, so make CERTAIN it is empty..and that "straight up" for your environment is a safe direction (like NOT on the bottom floor of an apartment).

This is the last thing I do when cleaning and reassembling my weapon. It gives me visual confirmation that the firing pin is functioning when struck.

I am supposing......I don't have to tell you NOT to look down the barrel and NOT to point the muzzle at a light fixture, right?

My P-13 will launch a pencil with enough force to strike the ceiling.

TX_shooter wrote:you don't even have to go to the range, it can be safely done at home.

Remove magazine
Visually Check chamber for EMPTY
Manually Check chamber for EMPTY
Point gun in safe direction (I use a stack of phone books)
Pull the trigger
If the hammer moves at all; either the disconnect is not working or their isn't one.

Or you could just read the maunal before using the gun.

I know the Ruger P95 that I have will fire without a magazine. As stated in the maunal, you can load and shoot one round at a time, and I have.

While this process and the one suggested by flintknapper will certainly work, I deliberately didn't recommend them because I didn't have confidence that they would be performed safely in other than a range environment by someone who hadn't taken the time to read the user manual and was already uncertain about a very basic aspect of the gun's operation.

Excaliber wrote:

TX_shooter wrote:you don't even have to go to the range, it can be safely done at home.

Remove magazine
Visually Check chamber for EMPTY
Manually Check chamber for EMPTY
Point gun in safe direction (I use a stack of phone books)
Pull the trigger
If the hammer moves at all; either the disconnect is not working or their isn't one.

Or you could just read the maunal before using the gun.

I know the Ruger P95 that I have will fire without a magazine. As stated in the maunal, you can load and shoot one round at a time, and I have.

While this process and the one suggested by flintknapper will certainly work, I deliberately didn't recommend them because I didn't have confidence that they would be performed safely in other than a range environment by someone who hadn't taken the time to read the user manual and was already uncertain about a very basic aspect of the gun's operation.

There is always some goofball that can't perform the simplest of tasks. These folks are as much a danger at the range as anywhere else.

I'd rather have them "plug" themselves at home...then send them out into public.

And you can just call me "flint", its shorter...and everyone else does.