CHL Carry prohibited Port Arthur Civic Center shelter

[dihappy]

I guess there really is no such thing as "price gouging" then.

Those hotels that raised their prices like never before are actually helping everyone :P

[Xander]

I guess there really is no such thing as "price gouging" then.

That is correct. "Price gouging" is an imaginary construct dreamed up by socialists to help convince people that if they give up their personal freedoms and responsibilities to The Glorious And Benevolent State, then The Glorious And Benevolent State could finally have the power it needs to make the world Fair And Just For All.

When demand goes up faster than supply, prices must also go up, or the supply will dry up. Tennessee, the first state to sue gas stations after Katrina for "price-gouging" is seeing that now. as they been seeing a critical shortage of gasoline for days now as station after station goes dry. That doesn't serve anybody, particularly the people who really truly need the gas and who would have been willing to pay for it if it hadn't all been snapped up by people who didn't really need it at government-regulated artificially low prices.

[Texian]

Oh, and by the way..........
All those gas stations that are price gouging . . .

FORUM RULES: READ BEFORE REGISTERING OR POSTING!

10. Do not hijack threads. If a post gives you an idea for a new or different discussion, start a new thread.

No offense meant but a new thread would also give members a better opportunity to weigh-in on this different discussion as the title of the thread would reflect price gouging as the topic.

[barres]

To get this back on topic...

It sounds to me like the Civic Center was the meeting place for people to be bused to various shelters at other locations (and yes, I may be completely wrong about this). Often the shelters are schools. I know the shelters that were set up for Ike a couple of days in advance for Ike in Huntsville were at the HISD schools. Shelters at private facilities (churches, etc.) came later. They may have given the warning because there was every likelyhood that you would be sent to a shelter in a location which was off-limits by law, anyway, and you wouldn't know in advance.

That is another reason why I don't like the idea of depending on shelters in a disaster. I want to know where I will be and what I can expect from my hosts and what they will expect from me. Of course I have family spread out from Houston to DFW to the base of the panhandle. If I had to leave home, I have places to go without going to a shelter.

On another note, God be with those of us impacted by Ike. This is going to take a while to recover from.

[pt145ss]

After katrina, I thought Gov. Perry issued an executive order or something that basically said that the state agencies and local munipalities cannot take your guns in time of emergencies? Mostly in response to what happend in New Orleans. I am going to try and look this up...but maybe some one here can claify this for me.

[pt145ss]

I found this in an article from the statesman.

In March, Perry signed a new law about the "castle doctrine," which was authored by Wentworth and Driver and expands the circumstances when homeowners and others are allowed to shoot intruders. And on Friday, Perry signed a bill by Corte and Carona that would prevent the arbitrary confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency.

It does not reference a bill number or anything. Anyone know the details? Although the shelter was not "confiscating" firearms it could deny shelter. That being said, is the civic center is owned by the municipality, how can the ban CHL holders?

[srothstein]

government Code chapter 418 deals with emergency management. Last session, the bill added the following:

418.184. FIREARMS.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful execution of the officer's official duties during a state of disaster may
disarm an individual if the officer reasonably believes it is immediately necessary for the protection of the officer or
another individual.
(b) The peace officer shall return a firearm and any ammunition to an individual disarmed under Subsection (a) before
ceasing to detain the individual unless the officer:
(1) arrests the individual for engaging in criminal activity; or
(2) seizes the firearm as evidence in a criminal investigation.


Note that this says the firearm may be seized but must be given back if the person is not being arrested. It matches the section in Chapter 411 about a CHL on a traffic stop.

[pt145ss]

government Code chapter 418 deals with emergency management. Last session, the bill added the following:

418.184. FIREARMS.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful execution of the officer's official duties during a state of disaster may
disarm an individual if the officer reasonably believes it is immediately necessary for the protection of the officer or
another individual.
(b) The peace officer shall return a firearm and any ammunition to an individual disarmed under Subsection (a) before
ceasing to detain the individual unless the officer:
(1) arrests the individual for engaging in criminal activity; or
(2) seizes the firearm as evidence in a criminal investigation.


Note that this says the firearm may be seized but must be given back if the person is not being arrested. It matches the section in Chapter 411 about a CHL on a traffic stop.

Ok...so it is not quite what I had invisioned it to be. That being said, what authority does a civic center (presumably municipality owned) have to ban CHL during a time when it is used as a shelter?

[srothstein]

None as far as I know. There might be something in the emergency laws giving them some powers, but as far as I can tell, the only thing they can do with firearms is disarm you while they are detaining you.

[Mr.Scott]

So they are evacuees, with no where else to go but a shelter, yet they will not be allowed with a firearm.

is that not in essence illegally disarming citizens, in a round about way?

I mean, if you dont give up your rights, then you dont get help. Sure i guess you can refuse help, but what are the chances that a displaced person will refuse help?

Its almost like charging them admission: "You have to evacuate and here are the shelters set up for you, but you have to pay to get in"

Boloney if you ask me!!

Pretty much, wasn't there a law passd after Katrina that said a governmental agency could not take guns from people during an emergency? SB 112 I believe.

If they are not wanding metal checking at the points go right on in with it concealed. No 30.06 no stopping me. They are picking up at schools and you are probably waiting in the parking lot, so you never enter the school. Once you are at the shelter and they find out you have one they can not take it from you.

[Mr.Scott]

I don't consider taking advantage of people under duress to be "basic economics".

Supply is limited, demand increases, price goes up. That's basic economics.

Business owns something that people want, people have to pay what the business wants for its property. That's basic freedom.

If you want government to control what someone can charge for their property, that's called socialism.

Besides, the people who didn't fill up until the streets started flooding put themselves into that situation. It's not the government's place to force gas station owners to bail them out.

Problem is with oil/gas is basic economics don't work. Oil goes up gas prices go up accordingly, oil goes down, gas prices don't go down accordingly. It turned into a figure out how much the people will pay for it and charge as much as you can.

[mr.72]

figure out how much the people will pay for it and charge as much as you can.

That is basic economics, plain and simple. Probably should take this to the price gouging thread in the Off Topic area.

[Charles L. Cotton]

10. Do not hijack threads. If a post gives you an idea for a new or different discussion, start a new thread.

One member already referenced this rule, so please take the price-gouging posts to an new thread in the Off Topic section.

Chas.

[dihappy]

Just goes to show how many cities will try to circumvent the law, or plainly disregard it at their discretion.

[KBCraig]

Just goes to show how many cities will try to circumvent the law, or plainly disregard it at their discretion.

And they'll do so without consequence, unless the law is changed to put real teeth into it.

As things are, sovereign immunity for government officials means they won't have to pay any personal price for these violations. The worst that might happen will be a court ruling telling them they can't do that again, months or years after the fact. They might even be ordered to say "I'm sorry" to those affected, but that's a long shot.

I hope it's still "too early", as Claire Wolf once said, for the solution that first comes to mind. She changed her mind sometime between passage of the REAL ID act, and Hurricane Katrina. I don't think we've reached my personal line in the sand. Yet. And I'm not sure where the line is, but I am certain it will be crossed in my lifetime.
Kevin