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Not having the time to read through everyones replies, I'm going to throw out my $.02.

I've fired a buddies PX4 in .40 and my cousin's wife's px4 in 9mm and the .40 kicks less in my opinion first of all, and I thought it was a nice weapon. Shot nice groups, good feel. Nice gun all around.

Never fired a M&P, picked one up at a gun show one day, liked the feel though. Hoping to shoot one sometime.

I carry a Glock 27 usually, prefer not having a safety. Highly recommend you get which ever one you and your wife are most comfortable with. It won't do you any good if it's locked up somewhere at the wrong time.

fisher_of_man wrote:nintao, thanks for your insight and post....it's also very helpful. and your right...by and large, most of those that I've visited with are VERY brand loyal. glad to hear you're enjoying your M&P and able to carry it. I assume it's a full size?

Sorry yes it is a full size :).

CompVest wrote:
I have found that women in my classes like shooting 45s. It is a misperseption of theirs that they are not fun to shoot. Once I get them to try them the 45s they are hooked.

really....I'd of never suspected that. I thought most would want to stay with the 9. I re-read your post and you said you feel like the felt recoil from the 45 might be less than the 40? I have always assumed - I know, dangerous territory there - that the 45 would be significantly more. several have told me that its more of a push backward than the muzzle flip of the 40 or 9 though. having never actually fired a 45, I wouldn't know what to expect. I might have to see if one of my buddies has a 45 I can just try out to check out recoil. I don't really have any issues at all with the 40 recoil and feel comfy with it. so if the 45 is less, that might be something to consider. only other issue with is is ammo price and that the 45 is actually a bit bigger in the m&p series....CC would be a little tougher.

fisher_of_man wrote:from the reviews I've read, everyone loves them...its just whether or not they are having all kinds of issues with them. I think it's going to be a great gun when they get evreything worked out....one that could give glock, xd, & M&P a run for their money, but I'm not sure it's there yet with everything I've read.

I'd really be interested to know what you've been reading.
Over at the BerettaForum, where I'm also a member, a malfunctioning PX4 is completely unheard of.
I have never, and I do mean never, had an FTF, FTE, or any malfunction of any kind. And I've fired at least 1500 rounds through it, of all different kinds.
FMJ's, JHP's, dirty stuff, clean stuff, all of it, and never had any problems.
And I am, by far, not the only one. Some guys over on the other forum will 100% swear by the reliability of this gun.
I won't trust a self-defense firearm that has jamming problems of any kind. And I don't even clean it all that often.

So again, I'd really like to know what you've been reading...

FWIW I've owned two PX4s (still have the 9mm and had to sell the .40 for extra cash) and have never had a malfunction of any kind with either of them with any ammo. That said, the M&Ps I've fired are also very nice and I have had no issues with them. I've only put 20-30 rounds through an M&P, but closer to 1000 through the PX4s.

Personally I prefer the M&P series to the PX4s. They are bigger guns (unless you get the M&P40c) and slightly more expensive, but the ergos are better (IMHO) and the trigger feels crisper (NJMHO). I also heard from a local gunsmith that the Beretta rotating-lock action is more prone to breakage than the Browning-style tilting barrel. YMMV.

kauboy wrote: I'd really be interested to know what you've been reading.
Over at the BerettaForum, where I'm also a member, a malfunctioning PX4 is completely unheard of.
I have never, and I do mean never, had an FTF, FTE, or any malfunction of any kind. And I've fired at least 1500 rounds through it, of all different kinds.
FMJ's, JHP's, dirty stuff, clean stuff, all of it, and never had any problems.
And I am, by far, not the only one. Some guys over on the other forum will 100% swear by the reliability of this gun.
I won't trust a self-defense firearm that has jamming problems of any kind. And I don't even clean it all that often.

So again, I'd really like to know what you've been reading...

Kauboy...
I'm not doubting your or anyone else's personal experience with the PX4. I have read NUMEROUS accounts on the Berreta forum about guys not happy with the finish (not just wear marks, but the finish actually chipping off), many threads over there about the "infamous" trigger sting - which seems to be more prevelant in the .40's, several accounts of the front sight falling out/off within the first 1000 rounds and many more numerous run-in's with Beretta's customer service that appears to be hit or miss depending on who at Beretta you talk to.

that being said....even with the guys having the trigger sting issues, most of them still reported that they had amazing accuracy with the PX4. As i said in the original post, I know that Beretta stepped up to the plate with the trigger sting issue, but one thread in particular that I read started in March....they didn't recieve thier replacement guns until late July ( 5 mos later). And honestly, I don't know that without the help of the Berreta rep on the forum that stepped in (mateo I believe is his name) that they still would have gotten a suitable response. Since this will be my home defense weapon and only handgun at the time....I don't feel all that comfy knowing that my pistol could be MIA for such a long period of time. As I also stated in my original post, from everything I've been able to read on teh beretta forum, they (Beretta) have yet to say exactly what the issue was. There were numerous "ideas" that were posted by those owning the guns, but no one ever confirmed that. I don't know that I ever said that they were malfunctioning....but these other issues are still "serious" issues in my book.

again...I know that no manufacturer is perfect and that all new weapons are going to encounter some "growing pains". Thus the whole reason for my post. I was still considering the PX4 despite the known issues they currently have....just wanted opinions between that and the M&P.

glad to hear you are enjoying your PX4...may you continue to in the future!

fisher_of_man wrote:

kauboy wrote: I'd really be interested to know what you've been reading.
Over at the BerettaForum, where I'm also a member, a malfunctioning PX4 is completely unheard of.
I have never, and I do mean never, had an FTF, FTE, or any malfunction of any kind. And I've fired at least 1500 rounds through it, of all different kinds.
FMJ's, JHP's, dirty stuff, clean stuff, all of it, and never had any problems.
And I am, by far, not the only one. Some guys over on the other forum will 100% swear by the reliability of this gun.
I won't trust a self-defense firearm that has jamming problems of any kind. And I don't even clean it all that often.

So again, I'd really like to know what you've been reading...

Kauboy...
I'm not doubting your or anyone else's personal experience with the PX4. I have read NUMEROUS accounts on the Berreta forum about guys not happy with the finish (not just wear marks, but the finish actually chipping off), many threads over there about the "infamous" trigger sting - which seems to be more prevelant in the .40's, several accounts of the front sight falling out/off within the first 1000 rounds and many more numerous run-in's with Beretta's customer service that appears to be hit or miss depending on who at Beretta you talk to.

that being said....even with the guys having the trigger sting issues, most of them still reported that they had amazing accuracy with the PX4. As i said in the original post, I know that Beretta stepped up to the plate with the trigger sting issue, but one thread in particular that I read started in March....they didn't recieve thier replacement guns until late July ( 5 mos later). And honestly, I don't know that without the help of the Berreta rep on the forum that stepped in (mateo I believe is his name) that they still would have gotten a suitable response. Since this will be my home defense weapon and only handgun at the time....I don't feel all that comfy knowing that my pistol could be MIA for such a long period of time. As I also stated in my original post, from everything I've been able to read on teh beretta forum, they (Beretta) have yet to say exactly what the issue was. There were numerous "ideas" that were posted by those owning the guns, but no one ever confirmed that. I don't know that I ever said that they were malfunctioning....but these other issues are still "serious" issues in my book.

again...I know that no manufacturer is perfect and that all new weapons are going to encounter some "growing pains". Thus the whole reason for my post. I was still considering the PX4 despite the known issues they currently have....just wanted opinions between that and the M&P.

glad to hear you are enjoying your PX4...may you continue to in the future!

Let me give you another angle to look at this from. I had a Dell laptop in college that I needed for 90% of my engineering classes. It was absolutely imperitive that it worked every time I needed it to, because I had no backup computer (yet). Guess how many times I got to experience Dell's wonderful customer service over the 3 year warranty? If you guessed 6 times in 18 months before being replaced as a lemon, you're a winner!!! To their credit, the replacement they sent me has functioned flawlessly for well over 3 years now.

After having so many problems with the laptop, I decided I needed a backup computer while the good customer service was doing its thing. I built myself a heavy gaming desktop from parts ordered online, and the only thing I ever had to fix in 6 years was a bad case fan. Would probably still be functioning today if I hadn't scrapped it for being outdated. If I had ever had to call on myself for customer service for that thing, I'm sure I would have taken forever trying to diagnose a problem, and then spent a fortune once that diagnosis proved wrong. I just made sure I built it right up front to save headaches later.

Now I'm not saying having good customer service is a bad thing, but I'd much rather have something with a lower failure rate in the first place, especially when you're talking about a tool that could be called on to save your life. If I ever had to send a gun back to the factory for anything other than cosmetic, I think I'd personally lose confidence in that gun to perform when I needed it, and it would become a safe ornament. It wouldn't matter to me whether I got it back in 3 days or in 3 months, I'd still have that nagging doubt in my mind.

agbullet2k1 wrote:
Now I'm not saying having good customer service is a bad thing, but I'd much rather have something with a lower failure rate in the first place, especially when you're talking about a tool that could be called on to save your life. If I ever had to send a gun back to the factory for anything other than cosmetic, I think I'd personally lose confidence in that gun to perform when I needed it, and it would become a safe ornament. It wouldn't matter to me whether I got it back in 3 days or in 3 months, I'd still have that nagging doubt in my mind.

and I agree completely. But I also take a little more comfort in knowing that of the two weapons I'm considering if I had to send it back I could. I'm not made of money and certianly can't afford to just throw it around on different guns until I find the right one. while I hope to never have an issue with my gun, having a gun from a company that has a great reputation with their customer service and turn around times and willing to make things right would put me a little more at ease.

on the Beretta forum, some of the guys were having some major issues with trigger sting. life and death situation ... I guess it depends...does it hurt enough or cause enough of a flinch because you know it'll be there in the event that you have to use your gun? sure ruins fun shooting and practicing at the range. until these guys (10 -15 of them) united together and got the forum involved in getting a fix....Beretta was basically blowing them off. Several mentioned the issues they had when calling the Customer service department. it got to the point where they were all actually calling in and trying to get ahold of "jim" because he seemed to be the only "competent" peson in the department. Beretta did eventually step to the plate and replace thier guns....but for most it was after 5 mos. they gave them a brand new gun after 5 mos of waiting and communicating back and forth. 5 mos if that was your only handgun to be wthout, even though they were replacing the gun.

still at this point, they haven't announced what it was or to my knowledge even identified the problem. so is the potential there to have an issue with it.... yes...could I have one with any gun....yes. but knowing that there are some known issues that they don't have answers for yet and having a hit/miss customer service department would scare me some. Am I alone in thinking this way? I'd like to think that my hard earned money is worth something to the company I buy from ...and that they believe that they owe me what they promise.

now all that being said...I think both guns are good guns. I think both have thier +'s and -'s. to me, one of the factors in buying is to buy from a well known company (both are) that have good reputations with taking care of their customers (S&W has a very good rep from what I"ve read and seen - Beretta...well....good if you talk to "jim"). Just another of the factors....one I hope to never have to use, but one that I also have to consider.

I certainly don't think I'm a lucky one or anything, but I haven't had any of the finish issues, or trigger sting problems.
You do know the PX4 is older than the M&P, right?
I bought mine about 3 years ago, and it had been out for at least a year before that, I think.

See if "they" will let you dry fire the weapon before purchase. That should let you know if you've got a trigger issue or not.
Some places will, some won't.
Good luck in your decision.

fisher_of_man wrote:

CompVest wrote:
I have found that women in my classes like shooting 45s. It is a misperseption of theirs that they are not fun to shoot. Once I get them to try them the 45s they are hooked.

really....I'd of never suspected that. I thought most would want to stay with the 9. I re-read your post and you said you feel like the felt recoil from the 45 might be less than the 40? I have always assumed - I know, dangerous territory there - that the 45 would be significantly more. several have told me that its more of a push backward than the muzzle flip of the 40 or 9 though. having never actually fired a 45, I wouldn't know what to expect. I might have to see if one of my buddies has a 45 I can just try out to check out recoil. I don't really have any issues at all with the 40 recoil and feel comfy with it. so if the 45 is less, that might be something to consider. only other issue with is is ammo price and that the 45 is actually a bit bigger in the m&p series....CC would be a little tougher.

The recoil isn't less with the 45 just feels softer then the 40. This is why women tend to like the 45 even though the gun moves more then a 40 or 9. If you haven't tried a 45 give it a test run before ruling it out.

kauboy wrote:I certainly don't think I'm a lucky one or anything, but I haven't had any of the finish issues, or trigger sting problems.
You do know the PX4 is older than the M&P, right?
I bought mine about 3 years ago, and it had been out for at least a year before that, I think.

See if "they" will let you dry fire the weapon before purchase. That should let you know if you've got a trigger issue or not.
Some places will, some won't.
Good luck in your decision.

Kauboy,
I don't necessarily think your "a lucky one" either. even with the problem, I'd bet it affects less than 10% of the .40 PX4 owners, but some didn't even get it right away. one of the guys in the link below didn't get it until he was around 5500 (might have been a few more) rounds. it was a crazy thing that no one ever could say for sure what the problem was. here is the link: http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/showthre ... hlight=PX4 . like i said, some had it some didn't. I don't know that any of them could have found it by dry firing. the last time i was in my local shop though, the guy was cool with me dry firing any and all of them, so you can bet I wil before I buy. I hope you never develop any issues with your PX4. I'm very attacted to them and the whole design, just not 100% convinced to take the plung based on some of the things discussed at Beretta Forum.

Until about 3 days ago, I wasn't aware that the PX4 had been out longer...which again is kinda crazy to me. I think they've got a good design....but where is the support for it? Just from what I've seen it looks like the M&P has much more support and marketing than the PX4. Seems to me like Beretta is missing out on taking away some of the glock, xd, m&p market share.

thanks for the advice and insight....I'm glad you like your's...as I've said, everyone I've read that owned one speaks very highly of them - even if they are having issues with their gun. one of the guys in the forum talks about how accurate his is - when he can stand the pain....I like accuracy...not so much on the pain

have a good one and I'll let you know what I end up with. I've been looking pretty indepth at the Sig 229 DAK the last couple of days too....I know...I'm all over the place right now...wish we had a range to rent a few before I had to make a decision...even within a couple hundred miles...but we don't

CompVest wrote:
The recoil isn't less with the 45 just feels softer then the 40. This is why women tend to like the 45 even though the gun moves more then a 40 or 9. If you haven't tried a 45 give it a test run before ruling it out.

thanks for the advice...I'll see if one of my buddies has a 45 I can check out just to get a feel for the recoil.

fisher_of_man,

I wish you lived closer, SRVA and I would really enjoy meeting you and your lady on the range to try out a few guns!

If you are ever going to be in the Norht Houston or Conroe area let us know and we'll try to meet up at a range.

CompVest wrote:fisher_of_man,

I wish you lived closer, SRVA and I would really enjoy meeting you and your lady on the range to try out a few guns!

If you are ever going to be in the Norht Houston or Conroe area let us know and we'll try to meet up at a range.

compvest....thanks...I'd love to be able to take you up on your offer....but your about a 6 1/2 hour drive from us....wish I had a need to be over in your parts to check it all out. My Bro-in-law just graduated in May from A&M as a vet...so we used to go somewhat regularly to College Station and every so often conroe....but they moved back here after he graduated, so unless we get to catch a game later this year, I doubt we'll be out that way....but thanks forthe offer. I sure wish we had a rental range around here!!!