TexasCHLforum.com

Abraham wrote:From what I've discovered the O.C. advocates in Texas seems to think citizens in O.C. states commonly carry in public, yet from what I've discovered few in those states actually take advantage.

From what I've read, it seems the majority of the Texas CHL holders on this forum wouldn't take advantage even if available to them either.

Personally, I'd feel a little foolish wearing an O.C. rig in public. I can imagine the reaction of folks in the grocery store and elsewhere. I'm sure the response from the non-gun toting public at large would range from bemusement to outright contempt. Snuffy Smith goes grocery shopping...Yehaw!!

Yet, I too think O.C. should be available if one so chooses. But, if I encountered a rigged out O.C. guy in public, I'd wonder if he isn't simply desiring some type of ego bolstering/compensating attention, especially since the loss of advantage concealment provides isn't made up for in physical comfort.

It'll be very interesting to see what the outcome will be if O.C. is enacted into law in Texas. My guess is few will ultimately take advantage.

So,do you feel this way about every off-duty LEO that chooses to carry openly?
JL

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I too think a Class A Misdemeanor (1 yr in jail and/or $4,000 fine) is way too high for merely possessing a firearm while trespassing. If a person unlawfully used a gun during a trespass, then there will be other statutes that could be used to prosecute at a higher level.

I also think the "intentional failure to conceal" should be lowered from a Class A a Class C (i.e. fine only and not CHL disqualifying). Again, if a CHL pulls a gun without justification, then there likely will be other violations that can be charged. If not, then it was a very minor breach and doesn't warrant jail time or loss of CHL. Failure to tender a CHL to an officer should no longer be a violation, but if it remains, it should be a Class C as well.

Chas.

agreed.

jlangton wrote:

Abraham wrote:From what I've discovered the O.C. advocates in Texas seems to think citizens in O.C. states commonly carry in public, yet from what I've discovered few in those states actually take advantage.

From what I've read, it seems the majority of the Texas CHL holders on this forum wouldn't take advantage even if available to them either.

Personally, I'd feel a little foolish wearing an O.C. rig in public. I can imagine the reaction of folks in the grocery store and elsewhere. I'm sure the response from the non-gun toting public at large would range from bemusement to outright contempt. Snuffy Smith goes grocery shopping...Yehaw!!

Yet, I too think O.C. should be available if one so chooses. But, if I encountered a rigged out O.C. guy in public, I'd wonder if he isn't simply desiring some type of ego bolstering/compensating attention, especially since the loss of advantage concealment provides isn't made up for in physical comfort.

It'll be very interesting to see what the outcome will be if O.C. is enacted into law in Texas. My guess is few will ultimately take advantage.

So,do you feel this way about every off-duty LEO that chooses to carry openly?
JL

*sigh*
I can feel this thread wandering off into territory already. This subject has been argued many times over on these forums.

To address your question, most departments I am aware of require off-duty officers to carry concealed. All the plain-clothes cops I have seen open carrying also have a badge on their belt next to the gun. It's not really the same thing. I don't have an inherent opposition to OC. I do have opposition to OC legislation that will hurt the rights and standing of current CHLers. Yes, I believe we should have legal OC. How we get there is another matter. The thing that irks me about so many OC proponents is they they have a "we want it and we want it now!" attitude, and seem oblivious to the ramifications their methods and attitude have on the rest of us. I'm not saying everyone who is for OC is that way, just the loudest of them. I've made my position clear on more than one occasion, so I have no desire to take the time to write it all out again. You can read some of my previous statements on the subject here:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 12#p192440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 66#p154166" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


And since I'm talking about all the previous OC threads we've had here, I invite you to review them yourself. It will give you hours of reading material, and hopefully (I'm being optimistic here) we won't have to rehash as many of the same points that have been repeated so many times already.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... f=7&t=1875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=10360" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=13096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=13805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=15444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

*Note that this list isn't even exhaustive. There have been many more, and I've not listed some of the more recent threads, as I've grown tired of reading them. The search function will undoubtedly bring you more results.

I understand how folks can find any subject that's discussed ad infinitum tiresome, but time marches on and others, like me, come across the subject for the first time and are interested.

So, why not simply avoid/not read threads that aren't new to you? No one is required to read all threads.

For me, the discussion of many gun topics are old and I just look for the threads that DO interest me.

Throwing cold water, if you will, on a subject has a chilling effect in general.

Personally, I don't want to have to consider if a gun topic, in some aspects isn't popular with all.

Often, education is repetitive.

Abraham wrote:I understand how folks can find any subject that's discussed ad infinitum tiresome, but time marches on and others, like me, come across the subject for the first time and are interested.

So, why not simply avoid/not read threads that aren't new to you? No one is required to read all threads.

For me, the discussion of many gun topics are old and I just look for the threads that DO interest me.

Throwing cold water, if you will, on a subject has a chilling effect in general.

Personally, I don't want to have to consider if a gun topic, in some aspects isn't popular with all.

Often, education is repetitive.

Actually, some people are required to read all threads - the moderators. As far as avoiding these threads, In general I do. As I said, I didn't even link to some of the newer ones, as I'd completely ignored them. I did the same for nearly a week with this one, but I DO care about how proposed OC legislation affects my rights as a CHL holder. In effort to temper the dreaded repetition of the same tired points by different people, I posted links above so that everyone would have the advantage of reading what has already been discussed. This way, we don't have to go through a bunch of arguments to come to the same conclusions that others have multiple times over.

Some parts of education may be repetitive, but you don't get beyond rudimentary aspects of education by staying ignorant of what has been said and learned by those before us. Once we understand those things, we can progress forward rather than spinning in circles, "rediscovering" a basic understanding things for ourselves.

I'm not saying don't discuss it. I'm saying it's helpful to understand what's been said already. That's why I posted the links. Lots of people have put a lot of effort into this discussion, which you can benefit from. Questions of folks who are new to the topic have can be addressed without it all being hashed out and argued all over again. Then, perhaps rather than arguing a redundant point, you have the time to bring up something new that no one has thought of. Then we could actually make some constructive progress on the topic.

See my point? It's not that I'm trying to be a downer on the subject, I just dislike seeing people waste their time rather than progressing constructive conversation.

+1 on both points, NcongruNt! As a Mod I do read all the posts on my Forums of responsibility and many others of interest and I agree that knowing what has already been said makes for for better future posts on topics of repeated interest.