TexasCHLforum.com

I had fun when we did the shotgun practice session

We didn't do any practice. Load em up and shoot.

This is not a slap at ALL Security Officers this is just my .02. Txinvestigator might have a better thought on this than I do. The "professionalism, leadership and ethics" as an LEO observing Security Officers were sure lacking several years ago. Uniforms wrinkled, dirty, etc. . . Most of them were very slouchy and not professional at all. I had contact with many Security Officers and I can only remember about 1 out of 5 that I even trusted. I know they go through background checks, but I am not for sure if they should not also go through a psychological exam. Because of ones I have seen recently do not look like they have improved much either. Most of the ones I had dealt with were people who really wanted to be LEO's, but for some reason or other did not find employment. Just some observation and opinion. Again no disrespect to the good ones. And before someone else makes the comments I know there are LEO's that fit this profile also, but I believe it is fewer and far between than the Security profession. I also believe if the Security Company's would use a little more discretion it might give LEO and Security a better working relationship.

one eyed fatman wrote:I have a license. It's even got my picture on it. On the back the first words read :The bearer of this card is licensed..." .

regardless, read the Texas Occupations Code. You are registered, not, licensed.

txinvestigator wrote:]Why should OC/Baton/Handcuffing be a part of the commission training? Do you suggest adding hours?

one eyed fatman wrote: Why shouldn't it be. No I don't think adding hours is necessary, all they have to do is make better use of the 30 hours. There was an awful lot of wasted time in the class I took.

Saying "why not" does not answer the question as to why. It indicates you have no idea why, but YOU want the training.

I will tell you why not though. Many, many security guards will never arrest someone: no need for a handcuffing class. Not all will carry a baton, and certification is not required to carry a baton or OC.


You may feel there is wasted time in the class, but as an instructor, licensed manager, a person in the industry for over 15 years I believe there needs to be MORE time to cover the alloted requirements. You already admitted that your instructor did not cover subjects that the law mandates. The class should be at least 40 hours, but then there would just be more things the students will forget.

one eyed fatman wrote:]Most of the people in my class had never fired or even held a handgun or shotgun. Suddenly after spending a couple hours talking about them about 15 minutes shooting a handgun and another 15 minutes shooting a shotgun they were qualified to carry on the job. Not much training there.

No, the 30 hour class qualifies one to carry, not just the portion over firearms.

carlson1 wrote:This is not a slap at ALL Security Officers this is just my .02. Txinvestigator might have a better thought on this than I do. The "professionalism, leadership and ethics" as an LEO observing Security Officers were sure lacking several years ago. Uniforms wrinkled, dirty, etc. . . Most of them were very slouchy and not professional at all. I had contact with many Security Officers and I can only remember about 1 out of 5 that I even trusted. I know they go through background checks, but I am not for sure if they should go through a psychological exam. Because of ones I have seen recently do not look like they have improved much either. Most of the ones I had dealt with were people who really wanted to be LEO's, but for some reason or other did not find employment. Just some observation and opinion. Again no disrespect to the good ones. And before someone else makes the comments I know there are LEO's that fit this profile also, but I believe it is fewer and far between than the Security profession. I also believe if the Security Company's would use a little more discretion it might give LEO and Security a better working relationship.

Fair observation.

I actally cover this in class. It is like a vicious circle. YOu get what you pay for, but the quality of students I see today is better, generally, than even a few years ago.

carlson1 wrote:This is not a slap at ALL Security Officers this is just my .02. Txinvestigator might have a better thought on this than I do. The "professionalism, leadership and ethics" as an LEO observing Security Officers were sure lacking several years ago. Uniforms wrinkled, dirty, etc. . . Most of them were very slouchy and not professional at all. I had contact with many Security Officers and I can only remember about 1 out of 5 that I even trusted. I know they go through background checks, but I am not for sure if they should not also go through a psychological exam. Because of ones I have seen recently do not look like they have improved much either. Most of the ones I had dealt with were people who really wanted to be LEO's, but for some reason or other did not find employment. Just some observation and opinion. Again no disrespect to the good ones. And before someone else makes the comments I know there are LEO's that fit this profile also, but I believe it is fewer and far between than the Security profession. I also believe if the Security Company's would use a little more discretion it might give LEO and Security a better working relationship.

Your post is sound and in good judgment and you didn't have to quote the law to make your point. I was pretty embarrassed to be in the same room with some of those people.

txinvestigator wrote:. . .The class should be at least 40 hours, but then there would just be more things the students will forget.

Years ago even a Jailor had to have a 40 hour class. I am not for sure that the 40 hours class plus refresher every 2 years is not a bad ideal. What ever happened to "Reserve and Report" theory?

carlson1 wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:. . .The class should be at least 40 hours, but then there would just be more things the students will forget.

Years ago even a Jailor had to have a 40 hour class. I am not for sure that the 40 hours class plus refresher every 2 years is not a bad ideal. What ever happened to "Reserve and Report" theory?

Observe and report.......it is the #2 job of a guard. #1 is to be prevention by being a visible deterrent.

The armed guards have a 6 hour re-qual class every 2 years.

txinvestigator wrote:Observe and report.......it is the #2 job of a guard. #1 is to be prevention by being a visible deterrent. The armed guards have a 6 hour re-qual class every 2 years.

Reserve or Observe that tells you how much I know

I will tell you why not though. Many, many security guards will never arrest someone: no need for a handcuffing class. Not all will carry a baton, and certification is not required to carry a baton or OC.

Many cops will never ever shoot anyone but they are still required to carry a gun and once a year qualify with it. Some will never arrest anyone but they still carry cuffs.

Truth is a lot of company's hire security guards to pick up trash and hand out newspapers. None of these company's are really concerned about security, they just want cheap labor.

one eyed fatman wrote:

I will tell you why not though. Many, many security guards will never arrest someone: no need for a handcuffing class. Not all will carry a baton, and certification is not required to carry a baton or OC.

Many cops will never ever shoot anyone but they are still required to carry a gun and once a year qualify with it. Some will never arrest anyone but they still carry cuffs.

Truth is a lot of company's hire security guards to pick up trash and hand out newspapers. None of these company's are really concerned about security, they just want cheap labor.

So now you are going to tell a 10 year LE veteren about LE work? You do understand that LEO's are required by law to apprehend and pursue lawbreakers, and most, if not all, face potentially deadly force situations regularly? I have NEVER met a cop who never arrested anyone. Your statement about that is goofy.

I have also NEVER seen a client hire a guard company hire a guard service to only "pick up trash and hand out newspapers". I suspect you seriously misunderstand this business.

Jailors (dentention officers) at least in Harris County undergo substatially more training then forty hours. As of November of last year training was 4 weeks - three weeks classroom and one week as a trainee in the jail.

Security personnel vary greatly in quality, some companies make a real effort to hire personnel with a professional attitude others will take anyone who can squeak through the backround check. Unfortunately the salary level hinders the acquisition of quality personnel.

I am sure, and the posts here seem to confirm, that there is a great variance in the quality of instruction from one facility to the next. This is apparent in CHL training as well. Some instructors are there strictly for the money they can earn while others take their responsibility and the subject matter very seriously.

Dave B.

txinvestigator wrote:

one eyed fatman wrote:

I will tell you why not though. Many, many security guards will never arrest someone: no need for a handcuffing class. Not all will carry a baton, and certification is not required to carry a baton or OC.

Many cops will never ever shoot anyone but they are still required to carry a gun and once a year qualify with it. Some will never arrest anyone but they still carry cuffs.

Truth is a lot of company's hire security guards to pick up trash and hand out newspapers. None of these company's are really concerned about security, they just want cheap labor.

So now you are going to tell a 10 year LE veteren about LE work? You do understand that LEO's are required by law to apprehend and pursue lawbreakers, and most, if not all, face potentially deadly force situations regularly? I have NEVER met a cop who never arrested anyone. Your statement about that is goofy.

I have also NEVER seen a client hire a guard company hire a guard service to only "pick up trash and hand out newspapers". I suspect you seriously misunderstand this business.

So now you are going to tell a 10 year LE veteren about LE work? You do understand that LEO's are required by law to apprehend and pursue lawbreakers, and most, if not all, face potentially deadly force situations regularly? I have NEVER met a cop who never arrested anyone. Your statement about that is goofy.

No I'm not trying to tell you anything. I'm just conveying my thoughts as you are.

I have also NEVER seen a client hire a guard company hire a guard service to only "pick up trash and hand out newspapers". I suspect you seriously misunderstand this business.

Just because you have never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've heard countless stories from people who have to do that sort of thing in their security jobs. If it wasn't for my boss i would be out picking up garbage everyday where I work. Not everyone lives in your world TX. You make some great posts here. Your great at cutting and pasting the law but that doesn't always answer the questions because the law is always open to interpretation.

bauerdj wrote:Jailors (dentention officers) at least in Harris County undergo substatially more training then forty hours. As of November of last year training was 4 weeks - three weeks classroom and one week as a trainee in the jail.

Security personnel vary greatly in quality, some companies make a real effort to hire personnel with a professional attitude others will take anyone who can squeak through the backround check. Unfortunately the salary level hinders the acquisition of quality personnel.

I am sure, and the posts here seem to confirm, that there is a great variance in the quality of instruction from one facility to the next. This is apparent in CHL training as well. Some instructors are there strictly for the money they can earn while others take their responsibility and the subject matter very seriously.

Dave B.

Another fine post made with an open mind.

bauerdj wrote:Jailors (dentention officers) at least in Harris County undergo substatially more training then forty hours. As of November of last year training was 4 weeks - three weeks classroom and one week as a trainee in the jail.Dave B.

You are probably right. I have been out of the LEO loop for a while. I know in the 80's you could work in the jail without any certification. You could work for an agency for 1 year before you went to a Police Academy that was only six weeks long. Then in went to 40 hours for jailer and now I believe the law is 80 hours. The Police Academy's were 10 weeks and DPS was 22 weeks. Now I have no ideal. I am sure the quality of Security Officers have changed also. I believe the biggest problems with all of this type work is the CHARACTER of our citizens have rapidly declined. I know almost weekly a LEO has been arrested. What a sad time we live in. More of the reason we should all be responsible with our CHL It has been about 11 years since I taught a firearms class and you could not pay me enough money txinvestigator to do what you do. Thanks for your service because if not for people like you I could not have a CHL!

Texas A&M LEA is 3 months or so fwiw.

-nick