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Liberty wrote:

...Sorry, I don't get the parallelism of Neville and the Navy commander...

Please forgive me for being less than clear.

Chamberlain was the Prime Minister of England who said Hitler was a really nice guy and just wanted to be friends. As Prime Minister, he was the captain of a once great country with several ships. That's kinda' like you know who is the captain of the USA. The navy commander takes orders from people who take orders - but you knew all of that.

Happy Easter.

I'm sure our sailors have been ordered by Washington to stand down.

What are the odds that there is a SEAL team element just waiting to make an underwater approach on that lifeboat, and engage in a hostage rescue? I would say those odds are pretty high. to all our units of SOCOM.

Our Navy is not a milquetoast outfit. But they do have to follow orders. I also think that it is agonizing them to just stand by and observe.

What are the odds that there is a SEAL team element just waiting to make an underwater approach on that lifeboat, and engage in a hostage rescue? I would say those odds are pretty high.

Sadly, Pedalman, the odds are exactly zero.
The captain attempted an escape and jumped into the water, probably thinking as you did that a team of navy SEALs was standing buy. Unfortunately, no-one came to his aid and he was recaptured.
See:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7993765.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Had the SEALs been there, I have no doubt that we'd have had a rescued captain and a bunch of dead or captured pirates.
The fact that the seals were not there forces me to the conclusion that the commander in chief did not want them there.

Oldgringo wrote:

Liberty wrote:

...I don't see where we have been appeasing the Somalis...

BINGO! (sorta')

Appeasement is part of the answer to the history question above. The greater fear is appeasement to everybody everywhere to show that we (the USA) are really nice guys and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

As Steve said, 'if we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it'.

Does Obama's communist Somali cousin, that he helped get elected in Kenya count?
http://caosblog.com/7071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Had the SEALs been there, I have no doubt that we'd have had a rescued captain and a bunch of dead or captured pirates.
The fact that the seals were not there forces me to the conclusion that the commander in chief did not want them there."

US Navy +1

pedalman wrote:I'm sure our sailors have been ordered by Washington to stand down.

What are the odds that there is a SEAL team element just waiting to make an underwater approach on that lifeboat, and engage in a hostage rescue? I would say those odds are pretty high. to all our units of SOCOM.

Our Navy is not a milquetoast outfit. But they do have to follow orders. I also think that it is agonizing them to just stand by and observe.

I am sure the seals were being patient waiting till the time was right. and as much as we all don't like Obama I am also sure he is pleased the result that patience has bought us. This incident went down as perfectly as anyone could have expected it to. while luck might have had something to do with it, the "negotiations bought time intelliegence, and were an important part of how this all ended up. Maybe for a moment the American Flag will have just a little more respect when it flies on the high seas. If it so happens during the Obama regime than so be it. Even French are getting into it now, they are killing a few Pirates also. I believe it just may be clouding up and there is a cool wind in Hades.

I have bottle of Beaujoule that I will open tonite.

Cheers!

Liberty wrote:

pedalman wrote:I'm sure our sailors have been ordered by Washington to stand down.

What are the odds that there is a SEAL team element just waiting to make an underwater approach on that lifeboat, and engage in a hostage rescue? I would say those odds are pretty high. to all our units of SOCOM.

Our Navy is not a milquetoast outfit. But they do have to follow orders. I also think that it is agonizing them to just stand by and observe.

I am sure the seals were being patient waiting till the time was right. and as much as we all don't like Obama I am also sure he is pleased the result that patience has bought us. This incident went down as perfectly as anyone could have expected it to. while luck might have had something to do with it, the "negotiations bought time intelliegence, and were an important part of how this all ended up. Maybe for a moment the American Flag will have just a little more respect when it flies on the high seas. If it so happens during the Obama regime than so be it. Even French are getting into it now, they are killing a few Pirates also. I believe it just may be clouding up and there is a cool wind in Hades.

I have bottle of Beaujoule that I will open tonite.

Cheers!

Enjoy.

Chemist45 wrote:

What are the odds that there is a SEAL team element just waiting to make an underwater approach on that lifeboat, and engage in a hostage rescue? I would say those odds are pretty high.

Sadly, Pedalman, the odds are exactly zero.
(snip)
The fact that the seals were not there forces me to the conclusion that the commander in chief did not want them there.

Hope you like the taste of crow!

Exactly.

You have to get the team(s) there, position and brief them, and then wait for the right time. I had no doubt this would happen when it was ready.

As for weapons in various ports? Hey, the companies can do a number of things. Seal the weapons prior to hitting port, pay an extra-expense to have them removed from the vessel when entering the port and returned when leaving.

Another alternative is to create an anti-piracy treaty providing provisions for arms on vessels that cannot be made available to the crew in a "protected" port. Any country that does not want to sign on can foregoe international protection of their vessels on the high seas.

My comment about Nevill Chamberlain's folly wasn't directed at our Navy, but at the overall problem of countries refusing to deal with the Somali pirate problem. I don't remember the exact number, but I believe the news report last night said there are still something like 13 ships under pirate control with outstanding ransom demands for their crews. That's absurd. The global community has created a cottage industry by it's refusal to destroy these people before they can take over a ship. It simply isn't that difficult to repel boarders in that setting, if you just arm the ship and crew.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:My comment about Nevill Chamberlain's folly wasn't directed at our Navy, but at the overall problem of countries refusing to deal with the Somali pirate problem. I don't remember the exact number, but I believe the news report last night said there are still something like 13 ships under pirate control with outstanding ransom demands for their crews. That's absurd. The global community has created a cottage industry by it's refusal to destroy these people before they can take over a ship. It simply isn't that difficult to repel boarders in that setting, if you just arm the ship and crew.

Chas.

I agree...Obviously...

What this does is set us up with a unique situation...

The United States (more accurately the American people) is not going to put up with this activity...Dispite the political leadership in place now...

The other countries that have appeased and paid ransoms to these criminals have set themselves up for continued attacks on everyone else...Including us...

Since we didn't play too much into this appeasement scheme...And I have my hunch that if the on-scene commander had not given the go to execute the recovery plan...This civilian Captain would have still been a hostage and he very well might not have made it...It was either going to be a rescue, or a casket on the way home for this guy...I am glad it turned out this way...

I will bet a buffalo nickle that this on-scene commander is going to get a very unnofficial dressing down for taking action, and he will be at the very least scrutinized above and beyond normal for this...Dispite the positive outcome...Because diplomacy, regardless of how effective that is, rules, in liberal administrations and governments...

But, we still have a problem...And what is interesting is that we have assets RIGHT THERE, RIGHT NOW to start taking care of this problem with extreme prejudice...

This country does not need to ask any permission, or create some sort of coalition to deal with these criminals...But this administration will try to do so...All the while with the ability to take care of it RIGHT NOW...

So yet again, I predict this will fester, and when the time comes, another ship with Americans onboard will be taken, and those Americans will either be killed on the spot, or they will be hustled off to become pawns that our President will not do a thing about...We thought the Iranian hostage crisis was embarassing??? hehehe, wait till this happens...

If there ever was a time to take care of such an easy problem, now is the time...

But I seriously doubt we have any leadership capable of making the right decision now...

So we'll just have to wait and see...We might be pleasantly surprised...

Someone will poll group this situation, and then they'll act...Or not...

I am not holding my breath one way or another.

History has shown us that some of the most decisive actions come from those that you least expect them from.

RHENRIKSEN wrote:

Chemist45 wrote:

What are the odds that there is a SEAL team element just waiting to make an underwater approach on that lifeboat, and engage in a hostage rescue? I would say those odds are pretty high.

Sadly, Pedalman, the odds are exactly zero.
(snip)
The fact that the seals were not there forces me to the conclusion that the commander in chief did not want them there.

Hope you like the taste of crow!

To be fair, I was wrong about the solution. I was expecting a direct approach. Snipers on the fantail never entered my mind.

SOCOM, oooyah!!!!!

pedalman wrote:I was expecting a direct approach. Snipers on the fantail never entered my mind.

Hmm...short-range headshot with a rifle is not a direct approach...gotta remember that.

Congratulations to the US Navy, and the safe return of all the crew members!