TexasCHLforum.com

seamusTX wrote:The regulation of alcoholic beverages is very rigid in Texas. People who have lived here all their life don't realize how rigid. In most states you can buy liquor at almost any grocery store up to 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, and it's much easier for a restaurant to get an on-premises beer and wine permit. - Jim

And you don't have to wait until noon on Sunday!

That kind of blue law is pretty common in Illinois at the local level. However, every town that has such ordinances is surrounded by bars and liquor stores, often obviously aimed at the "drier" town, and taxi drivers will deliver for a small fee.

In Chicago, they just open the back door of bars and keep the lights off.

- Jim

WildBill wrote:

seamusTX wrote:The regulation of alcoholic beverages is very rigid in Texas. People who have lived here all their life don't realize how rigid. In most states you can buy liquor at almost any grocery store up to 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, and it's much easier for a restaurant to get an on-premises beer and wine permit. - Jim

And you don't have to wait until noon on Sunday!

That's always kind of irked me as I like to get a little plastered before church

First of all to seamusTX, Jim, you have a nice selection of photos of the north side of south bound horses there.

As to atxgun's question, there is a little movement on the 51% issue this session. A bill recently passed the house (i believe) which would remove any penalty for a CHL who enters a 51% location when there is not proper 51% sign properly posted. That is a really good first step.

Also, as to the location you mentioned, are you sure that it truly was a 51% location. The 51% sign has no legal standing currently and is only advisory in nature. The offence occurs if a CHL carries on a true 51% premisis, regardless of whether or not there is a 51% sign. On the other hand, if the establishment is not really a 51% premisis (as determined by TABC) then you can legally carry whether there is a 51% sign or not. The determining factor is what is on the license. Check it sometimes. It is required to be visible to the public. If the license says SIGN=RED then it is illegal to carry. If the license says SIGN=BLUE then it is legal to carry no matter if a 51% sign is up or not.

By TABC policy, an establishment CANNOT be a 51% establishment if it has a Food & Beverage endorsement on the license (per srothstein). If the place has a full menu and not just snacks, it may very well NOT be a true 51% establishment.

You might want to look at the license the next convenient opportunity you have. That might solve this particular issue.

CWOOD wrote:First of all to seamusTX, Jim, you have a nice selection of photos of the north side of south bound horses there.

As to atxgun's question, there is a little movement on the 51% issue this session. A bill recently passed the house (i believe) which would remove any penalty for a CHL who enters a 51% location when there is not proper 51% sign properly posted. That is a really good first step.

Also, as to the location you mentioned, are you sure that it truly was a 51% location. The 51% sign has no legal standing currently and is only advisory in nature. The offence occurs if a CHL carries on a true 51% premisis, regardless of whether or not there is a 51% sign. On the other hand, if the establishment is not really a 51% premisis (as determined by TABC) then you can legally carry whether there is a 51% sign or not. The determining factor is what is on the license. Check it sometimes. It is required to be visible to the public. If the license says SIGN=RED then it is illegal to carry. If the license says SIGN=BLUE then it is legal to carry no matter if a 51% sign is up or not.

By TABC policy, an establishment CANNOT be a 51% establishment if it has a Food & Beverage endorsement on the license (per srothstein). If the place has a full menu and not just snacks, it may very well NOT be a true 51% establishment.

You might want to look at the license the next convenient opportunity you have. That might solve this particular issue.

I'll check for the blue sign next time I'm in the area. I didn't want to press my luck at the time. The place was Ausie's Bar & Grill on Barton Springs in Austin, for anyone that's familiar.

If it is not illegal to post a 51% sign when that is not the case is it at least required for true 51% places to post the notice when they are? If not, are you then expected to make it your responsibility to pre screen any place you wish to visit in person, unarmed, so you can check the actual licenses. The licenses aren't posted on the front door and while they are visible to the public there is no standard posting place so it takes some hunting to track them down.

I suppose you could call ahead if it's planned and flat out ask their license status but in this situation the visit was unplanned.

In the event y'all didn't already know this, Texas is constitutionally a dry state. The law states that any political jurisdiction; e.g., town, city, county or voting precinct can vote itself "wet". That's the way I read it for off premises sale of alcoholic beverages. Adult beverages by the drink is another totally different story. Tyler, for example, may be the wettest dry town in the world.

Think about it. you drive 10 miles through Dallas and one side of the street might have a liquor store, while Houston has adult beverages on nearly every corner. You drive across the state and see no adult beverage stores for 100 miles and all of a sudden at some seemingly remote widespot in the road, there will be a dozen adult beverage stores.

I'll bet the guys at the Alamo didn't know that's how it would turn out.

atxgun wrote: I'll check for the blue sign next time I'm in the area. I didn't want to press my luck at the time. The place was Ausie's Bar & Grill on Barton Springs in Austin, for anyone that's familiar.

If it is not illegal to post a 51% sign when that is not the case is it at least required for true 51% places to post the notice when they are? If not, are you then expected to make it your responsibility to pre screen any place you wish to visit in person, unarmed, so you can check the actual licenses. The licenses aren't posted on the front door and while they are visible to the public there is no standard posting place so it takes some hunting to track them down.

I suppose you could call ahead if it's planned and flat out ask their license status but in this situation the visit was unplanned.

It is AUSSIES BAR & GRILL, 306 BARTON SPRINGS RD., AUSTIN, TRAVIS COUNTY 78704 (googled it)

With this info I went to the TABC website:

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/index.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I clicked onto their 'Public Inquiry System' and entered in the above info.

It revealed that Aussies has a mixed beverage permit MB218510 and has subordinate licenses LB and PE.

Looking under the tab 'Licensing' then 'License and Permit Description' you will find that:
LB refers to late night hours...they can serve till 2AM
PE refers to them transporting purchased liquor to their premisis for resale

If it had among its subordinate licenses an FB, which is a Food and Beverage Certificate, then it would have positively indicated that the place is NOT a 51% establishment. According to our friend and excellent fellow poster, srothstein, by policy or rule a place cannot have an FB certificate and still be 51%.

Now this does not mean that Aussies is, or is not, 51%. You just cannot tell with info in the online database.

SO! (again according to Steve[srothstein]) the easiest way to tell is to look at the license. RED/BLUE? You may also be able to call TABC in Travis County and and ask.

Steve has noted that the Public Inquiry System is not ideal for this kind of search and is not really user friendly, and he is trying to influence powers that be to make it more useful in this type of inquiry. Let's not hold our breath yet as the state moves on its own timetable. The best help the public inquiry system is that if it does show the FB subordinate license, you KNOW that carry is legal. Unfortunately, without the FB certificate it may or may not be 51%.

Regarding your question about posting the sign, it is not illegal for them to do so, however if you find someone doing so improperly you can report them to TABC and they will correct it. They are also required to post 51% if they are in that catagory, however there is not criminal penalty, only an administrative process. If you find a place that should post 51% and it doesn't, you can call and report that too.

These places get a packet of signs when they get their license and sometimes they don't get them all posted properly.

All of this info has been acquired from postings by Steve (see Steve I have been paying attention). This is such a great site.

I put the license info and links so that you or any other readers here can try to use it for a search.

If you want to do another search try EVANGELINE CAFE, 8106 BRODIE, AUSTIN, TRAVIS 78745. It has license BG699786 (which is beer and wine retailer) and has the subordinate FB certificate. You can definately carry there.

Sorry for being so longwinded, but I hope this helps a little.

...and if one is erroneously arrested and one's carry piece is confiscated and one's CHL is revoked, how much are we talking about, time and dollarwise, to set the record straight and recover one's carry piece...?