SA man on trial for murder

[seamusTX]

The San Antonio Riverwalk is one of the safest places in the state with regard to crime. Just don't get drunk and fall on the uneven pavement.

There are places in San Antonio that should be avoided. I have to leave it to the natives to list them.

Have a good trip.

- Jim

[C-dub]

My wife and I like Casa Rio and then a boat ride. That is where she accepted my proposal 18 years ago.

[Captain Matt]

Is that old cottonwood mission still posted?

[Liberty]

The San Antonio Riverwalk is one of the safest places in the state with regard to crime. Just don't get drunk and fall on the uneven pavement.

There are places in San Antonio that should be avoided. I have to leave it to the natives to list them.

Have a good trip.

- Jim

I miss going there, I need to find if the Chamber of Commerse was behind trying to block the parking lot bill this session.

[seamusTX]

I miss going there, I need to find if the Chamber of Commerse was behind trying to block the parking lot bill this session.

Most likely.

Chambers of commerce are like a lot of other organizations where the leaders don't necessarily represent the views of their members. They are dominated by a few large players.

Probably the typical operator of a business on the Riverwalk doesn't give a stale tortilla whether their employees pack in their private vehicles, because those businesses do not have employee parking. Only a few corporate hotels, etc., have legal departments that influence such things.

- Jim

[Liberty]

I miss going there, I need to find if the Chamber of Commerse was behind trying to block the parking lot bill this session.

Most likely.

Chambers of commerce are like a lot of other organizations where the leaders don't necessarily represent the views of their members. They are dominated by a few large players.

Probably the typical operator of a business on the Riverwalk doesn't give a stale tortilla whether their employees pack in their private vehicles, because those businesses do not have employee parking. Only a few corporate hotels, etc., have legal departments that influence such things.

- Jim

You are right but the corporate hotels are where a lot of money is spent when I used to go there. I wrote letters to 3 hotels that I used to stay at. Only one bothered to write back (Crocker) I know they raised a big stink in 2007, but I hadn't heard much of them this time.

[Bart]

What was he supposed to do? He couldn't call 911. They took his phone!

[HKUSP45C]

1) Deadly force was not used upon him. 1 man punching another is not generally 'deadly force' unless the one throwing the punches is a 'professional' (hands and feet registered as deadly weapons? ), or it is a least a 3 on 1 situation.

I hate to pick nits but ... I'm going to do it anyway.

It's entirely possible to be killed in a one-on-one fist fight with an untrained aggressor. It happens frequently enough to be a concern, for me, at least. If you're rendered incapacitated from a lucky punch, the fall to the pavement alone, unchecked by your arms, is enough to kill you if you land on your noggin. The continued beating you're capable of suffering once down can also be deadly.

If you start punching me while I have a gun, I'm not going to try to "fight fair" and "take my beating like a man." I'm going to try to disengagefrom the fray, present my weapon and, if you continue your assault, use my pistol to stop you. I'm not going to wait until you render me unconscience, dead or unable to continue to defend myself and let you then rifle through my clothing for valuables or, in a worst case scenario, discover my gun and use it against me.

All that said, I wouldn't be in a bar with a pistol and I wouldn't shoot someone who had stopped attacking me AND was fleeing with my cellphone (of all things) just to stop them from taking it. I also wouldn't allow words to escalate to violence with a stranger. Finally, I wouldn't say one word to the cops, even if I was dumb enough to do the previous stupid things. My criminal defense attorney is smarter than I am (particularly if I was dumb enough to be in this situation), he can talk to them later.

Repeat these words until they stop asking you questions: "I need medical attention, I demand to speak to my attorney before I answer any questions, please take me to the hospital."

[Liberty]

Repeat these words until they stop asking you questions: "I need medical attention, I demand to speak to my attorney before I answer any questions, please take me to the hospital."

I prefer it to go like this;
"I don't feel very well."
"The guy tried to kill me."
"I will be glad to talk to you later and fill in all the details, but I don't feel so right now."
"My name is Liberty Ray, my wife's name is Equality Ray, may I please call her?"
"I'm sorry I will be more than happy to go over all of this with you later. I'm feeling a bit lousy right now."
" You want to see my drivers license? Here it is with my CHL"

Some cops tend to go on the offensive when the citizens make demands . I wouldn't mention a lawyer at the scene, I would try my hardest to appear cooperative without saying anything that could come back and hurt me. In these situations there is good chance you will be able to spend the night in your own bed. Charles Cotton's seminars are very helpful in understanding what can happen in these situations.

[HKUSP45C]

Liberty, I don't give a tinker's damn what some cops do, like, feel or any any other thing.

Anything you say can be used against you. Every utterance, exclamation, fidgety movement, whatever. Don't give a professional interrogator a chink in your armor to exploit.

"I need medical attention, I demand to speak to my attorney (it's important that you demand it, if you ponder it or say something unequivocal they don't have to stop questioning you), please take me to the hospital."

Can't get you in trouble, could save your attorney a ton of work. You were just in a fight for your life, you were willing to shoot someone over it, why would you gamble with the rest of what you just saved by saying ANYTHING to ANYONE?

Finally, I respect Charles Cotton quite a bit. I've read his posts here for years and I've seen him on the News, he's a fantastic individual. That said, I've never taken a seminar where he was the speaker. IF I had AND he said what you have said, I would STILL disagree (respectfully) and do what I said I would do.

I'm sure you've seen the videos "Don't talk to the cops" on youtube ... if you haven't, you should. In fact, it should be required viewing for all 6th graders.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NOTHING you say is going to help you or make your night easier. Why not take this perfect opportunity to SHUT UP?

Frankly, I've spent enough time on this rock that a night (or 30) in jail wouldn't bother me enough to trade the rest of my tommorows for the opportunity to avoid it.

[joe817]

I don't know if this pertains to the conversation, but I'll throw this in anyway.

I was watching Personal Defense TV 3 weeks ago on the Sportsman Channel and Massad Ayoob had 5 recommendations on what to do if you were involved in a deadly force encounter with an attacker with a lethal weapon:

1. Secure the attacker's weapon well out of reach of the attacker in as secure of a place as possible and don't touch it.
2. Immediately call LEO's and tell them you've been attacked and have defended yourself using deadly force, and to send PD and EMS to scene immediately.
3. Keep all witnesses at the scene so they can corroborate your actions to the police.
4. HOLSTER YOUR WEAPON!
5. When police arrive at scene, tell them immediately that you were attacked and defended yourself using deadly force, you wish to file a complaint, and you will fully cooperate with them in 24 hours, AFTER consulting with counsel. And say NOTHING more.

These things seem logical and reasonable to me. I am NOT recommending them.....just repeating what I saw/heard. IANAL.

I personally would like to see some posts by those more educated on legal issues like this, from some of our members and invite comments. And if this subject has been talked about in length before, pls forgive me. I've just not seen it since I've been a member here. Just my opinion.
Joe

[seamusTX]

I personally would like to see some posts by those more educated on legal issues like this, ...

I doubt you will ever see legal advice from a lawyer in writing, in public, about this topic. Giving advice that way would be risky if not unethical for a lawyer.

However, if you ever have an opportunity to take Charles Cotton's seminar, do whatever it takes to be there. I think he has offered it in the DFW area when he was there.

So we're pretty much left with discussing what writers like Chris Bird and Massad Ayoub have to say, and what we can learn from news stories like this one.

- Jim

[joe817]

Yes I agree, that was not an appropriate request. Apologies.

I would love to attend one(or all) of his seminars, and will be on the lookout for when/if he makes it up this way.

Thanks.

[seamusTX]

There's no need to apologize. It's just that the people best able to answer legal questions usually don't do so in public.

I have read some articles on what to do after self-defense incidents written by lawyers, but they always have the disclaimer that they are not legal advice (and in some cases, ludicrously, entertainment). We have to keep in mind that any such advice most likely was not written in the light of current Texas law.

- Jim

[Armybrat]

This is NOT what I wanted to hear just before I'm about to go on Vacation to San Antonio's River Walk. My wife and I both will be packing wherever we go and avoid all places that had 51% or 30.06's.

Maybe we will get lucky and have a good time.
Maybe I'll just get lucky!
On second thought.... ..a nap sounds good too.
Let ya'll know how SA turns out.

Do not pack in Pat O'Briens between the River Walk and the Alamo.

Their 51% signs are in out of the way spots.