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dicion wrote:

CWOOD wrote: A 'Defense to Prosecution' means AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN ARRESTED, and AFTER YOU GET TO TRIAL, you can use the lack of proper notification as a DEFENSE in your court case.

This, I believe to be incorrect. I do not believe a trial is guaranteed at all.

'Defense to prosecution' can mean that upon reviewing the case, the DA can decide NOT to prosecute, based on the fact of this, and the obvious defense.

I would hope that most DAs would do this, when it is abundantly clear that the business did not meet the sign requirements, rather then waste the taxpayer's money and time on a full trial.

Doesn't guarantee they won't though.

dicion,

You are correct in saying that is ONE option, but the use of that option is entirely out of your control and given the history of several DA's in the state in recent years regarding the respect for the legislative intent of several pro-2A bills over the last few sessions, I would not like to put my fate in their generous natures.

I was not trying to say that going to trial is the only outcome, I was saying that everyone reading this thread should be fully informed about what "defense to prosecution" means and what is being risked in depending on it. Early in this thread and in some others, there have been hints that the bill might be a way of avoiding the restrictions of the 51% provisions. Of course, even such a hint is irresponsible and certainly no one of us is suggesting that. However...

Because it is very common for folks to misunderstand the particulars of the penal code, if felt it important to make clear that there will continue to be the potential for VERY serious, if not catastrophic, consequences for those who carry in a 51% location. Obviously, we will all make our choices about what we will do, but everyone who does so needs to know the potential problems that can result.

dicion, I don't think we disagree. I was trying to let folks know a potential worst case scenerio and you were saying that the worst case might not be the only outcome. We agree, I believe.

Regards

I look at it like the castle doctrine's immunity from civil liability. It doesn't say they can't sue you. It says they can't win.

But to go back to the OP's question, there's still no definitive website listing 51% premises.

Opal Devines in Austin on 6th has a sign that can be seen from the street unless you enter the porch from the side. We were sitting around the corner and I didnt see the sign until I decided to go to the bathroom. It didnt even cross my mind that this may be a 51% establishment.
I am confused as to currently where the 51% sign is supposed to be placed. It seems to me that it should be somewhere where you can't miss it, if you never go in the front door you would never see it. I guess I should just be smart and realize that most places on 6th whether they are a restaurant or not will be 51% establishments.

dBex wrote:Opal Devines in Austin on 6th has a sign that can be seen from the street unless you enter the porch from the side. We were sitting around the corner and I didnt see the sign until I decided to go to the bathroom. It didnt even cross my mind that this may be a 51% establishment.
I am confused as to currently where the 51% sign is supposed to be placed. It seems to me that it should be somewhere where you can't miss it, if you never go in the front door you would never see it. I guess I should just be smart and realize that most places on 6th whether they are a restaurant or not will be 51% establishments.

As of right now:
It's SUPPOSED to be at each entrance. And the businesses can be cited for not having it there.
However, sign or not, if it is a 51% Establishment, you are breaking the law by being in there with a concealed weapon.
There is no specific defense about non-notification, other then the business 'shall have' them posted. What would a jury decide here? Unknown.

As of September first, 2009:
It's SUPPOSED to be at each entrance. And the businesses can be cited for not having it there.
However, sign or not, if it is a 51% Establishment, you are breaking the law by being in there with a concealed weapon.
THERE WILL BE a SPECIFIC DEFENSE relating to not being properly notified under the 'displayed at each entrance' requirements.
If it is proven that the businesses did not have the signs posted as required, then you will walk... eventually

dicion wrote:

dBex wrote:Opal Devines in Austin on 6th has a sign that can be seen from the street unless you enter the porch from the side. We were sitting around the corner and I didnt see the sign until I decided to go to the bathroom. It didnt even cross my mind that this may be a 51% establishment.
I am confused as to currently where the 51% sign is supposed to be placed. It seems to me that it should be somewhere where you can't miss it, if you never go in the front door you would never see it. I guess I should just be smart and realize that most places on 6th whether they are a restaurant or not will be 51% establishments.

As of right now:
It's SUPPOSED to be at each entrance. And the businesses can be cited for not having it there.
However, sign or not, if it is a 51% Establishment, you are breaking the law by being in there with a concealed weapon.
There is no specific defense about non-notification, other then the business 'shall have' them posted. What would a jury decide here? Unknown.

As of September first, 2009:
It's SUPPOSED to be at each entrance. And the businesses can be cited for not having it there.
However, sign or not, if it is a 51% Establishment, you are breaking the law by being in there with a concealed weapon.
THERE WILL BE a SPECIFIC DEFENSE relating to not being properly notified under the 'displayed at each entrance' requirements.
If it is proven that the businesses did not have the signs posted as required, then you will walk... eventually

Yeah as soon as I saw the sign i walked back to the car to stash the gun. It just baffled me that they wouldn't have it posted at every entrance. I have seen it at a few of these "restaurants" that have porches on them. You can easily hit the porch and never see the sign.

Here is a link to the Texas Peace Officer's Guide to Alcoholic Beverage Code, published by the TABC 12/2007. You may find it interesting/helpful:

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/other/ ... sGuide.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;