Disarmed at Mediacl Baylor Center, in Plano.

[KFP]

Clearly I'm not Beiruty, but it sounded like he was talking with a DPS Trooper to me.

30.06 2(B)(b) states "For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication."

Really, to me this seems like a very interesting situation to be in. He was asked specifically to present CHL, but is he actually required to when unarmed? The Trooper seems to think that the hospital is off limits simply because its a hospital, so I think it would come down to the specific language used in the conversation (as well as each person's ability to recall it precisely). On top of it all, does a Trooper have the authority to act for the owner?

It's safer to hash these situations out on here, than place yourself right in the middle of it. I highly recommend not pushing the issue if it is not posted correctly, especially with someone in an authority position. This is highlighted even more when the person asked could potentially remember you in the future and present a situation where you'll be hoping to beat the rap, but taking the ride.

[Beiruty]

He was an officer at DPS, or Baylor Police Department not 100% sure. he was NOT a security guards.

I had simpler question:
Can I carry concealed? Yes, or no?
Answer, was no, cause it is a hospital.
He asked for CHL to be shown and I produced it with no issues on my side.

Now, if some or the office would consider it I was verbally notified, no issues. as I was already unarmed at that time.

The encounter was very friendly. I would recommend to having some friendly encounters with LEO as much as possible to iron out unease and stress in real life scenarios.

[Purplehood]

How can the LEO be giving you effective verbal notice if as part of that notice he is incorrectly quoting the law?

[C-dub]

Precisely! The "officer" was informing Beruity of the law, which is no longer valid. I would not interpret this as notification and go ahead and carry.

I continue to fail to understand why people feel the need to ask a person what the policy is when there is no sign or an improper sign at an entrance. Well, okay. I'm thinking back to when I first started carrying and almost tried to go into a Stars game. I couldn't remember if professional sprting events were off limits, saw the metal detectors, and decided to ask an LEO standing nearby.

I guess that is just a lesson each of us has to learn ourselves. However, as more people visit this forum I hope we can teach this lesson to them in a shorter and less frustrating time.

Don't ask and they can't tell.

[TxRVer]

I wonder how the officer would have responded if Beiruty had refused to show his CHL. Since he was wrong about hospitals being off limits he might have been under the assumption that an unarmed CHL holder had to show his license. Was he a Plano cop or did you just not notice which PD he worked for?

[bdickens]

NEVER ASK! Never. Asking only gives them the opportunity to tell you "no." If the location is not posted properly, you have not been given proper notice. Concealed means concealed; what they don't know won't hurt you.

[KFP]

How can the LEO be giving you effective verbal notice if as part of that notice he is incorrectly quoting the law?

This is the part that comes down to exactly what was said. Did he simply say all hospitals are off limits or did he say you can't carry here? Then you have to get into if he has the authority to act in that capacity.

Looking at the two extremes you could say that Baylor Medical Center in Plano is now off limits for him or that the Sergeant was not in an appropriate position to issue verbal notice and also incorrectly quoted the law. It all comes down to the specific words that were exchanged, IF you believe he is in a position of authority to act for the owner.

[Beiruty]

My feeling at that time, is that even LEOs are not up to date on the laws of CHL.
I was capable and had the feeling it was Okay to go back to my car, holster and go back to my office visit. However, I did not have the need to do so. The only concern that I do not like to keep my pistol in the car in a public garage.

Oh, did I mentioned that it was the medical center "clinical offices" and not the actual hospital.

[Greybeard]

Quote: "NEVER ASK! Never. Asking only gives them the opportunity to tell you "no." "

"Never" is a pretty strong word, but overall, the quote above is very, very good advice. Around 10 years ago, I wound up trying to help out a guy who had got himself into some very difficult circumstances by having such a conversation with the wrong cop. Even if there are no proper signs posted at places such as hospitals and churches, the verbiage to the effect of "verbal notice by someone of apparent authority" if not in a position to leave immediately.

[Rokyudai]

At the PDS office in the Garage, I was refereed to on-site Sgt. who was promptly paged.

I'm of the initial opinion that if this officer was working 'off duty' and given authority to make certain 'security' judgement calls on the Medical Center's behalf, he or she did give you effective notice. If, for a moment, you take away the LEO's ignorance of the existing CHL laws (no disrespect or sarcasm intended) and look at what is being conveyed to you (you can't carry here), that suffices (albeit poorly) as notice.

LEO's have been known to wear their issued uniforms when working off duty, security detail. However, I think that this practice varies according to a LEO's individual department regulations.

Honestly though, I think it would be interesting to know what the arrangement is with this officer and the Medical Center before making a case for or against that he acted within his scope of power. JMHO.

It's a good question. I've been in that situation where I 'just wanted to know' and ended up disarming myself! I learned.

[Right2Carry]

At the PDS office in the Garage, I was refereed to on-site Sgt. who was promptly paged.

I'm of the initial opinion that if this officer was working 'off duty' and given authority to make certain 'security' judgement calls on the Medical Center's behalf, he or she did give you effective notice. If, for a moment, you take away the LEO's ignorance of the existing CHL laws (no disrespect or sarcasm intended) and look at what is being conveyed to you (you can't carry here), that suffices (albeit poorly) as notice.

LEO's have been known to wear their issued uniforms when working off duty, security detail. However, I think that this practice varies according to a LEO's individual department regulations.

Honestly though, I think it would be interesting to know what the arrangement is with this officer and the Medical Center before making a case for or against that he acted within his scope of power. JMHO.

It's a good question. I've been in that situation where I 'just wanted to know' and ended up disarming myself! I learned.

If he was paged then I would think he was acting in the interest of the Hospital and had the authority to give Verbal notice.

[Dexdahex]

Dont Ask if there are no sign posted correctly

[shootthesheet]

The way I look at it is if the door I enter is not posted then none of the place is posted as per the law. If I disarm and enter only to find every entrance isn't properly posted then none of the place is and I will carry there in the future. I don't ask and I don't tell.

The law on posting is specific and I am much more willing to hire a lawyer, if arrested, than to enter any place unarmed. It may cost me some money but some LEOs ignorance in the law will not stop me from protecting myself and other innocents. I don't see the point of going thru all we do to get a CHL if we are going to be intimidated by "what if" into leaving that gun in the car. Chances are, if properly concealed, no one will know we have the gun unless we are forced to defend ourselves.

If a CHL is forced to do that then he/she can slam any arresting LEO and Department for false arrest. I cannot imagine how embarrassed a Chief will be if I am forced to defend myself or other innocents only to have them falsely arrest me because their knowledge of the law is very much lacking. I thank God for good LEOs but will not hesitate to publicly slam any that step on me because of their ignorance or opinion. That is my opinion.