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Perhaps someone should call and say they saw Mayor Cory Booker Carrying an 'illegal gun' somewhere...
See how he likes the harassment that this system could be manipulated to cause.

Of course, I'm kidding, but this system spells 'abuse' all over it.

Neighbor let his dog go on your yard? Report him for a gun, and he'll get a visit by the police.
Oh, btw, it's anonymous, so even though it's false, there's no possibility of you getting in trouble for doing it

There's no mechanism to prevent people from abusing the system.

Right2Carry wrote:How does one determine what is a legal gun and an illegal gun for reporting? Seems to me alot of legal gun owners may get harassed by false reports.

If you are carrying on the streets in New Jersey, If your not a cop or other politically connected your most likely illegal.

74novaman wrote:

srothstein wrote:I guess I am weird but I don't see a problem with the program. I see it being abused by gang members getting revenge on their opposition but the basic program is not illegal or immoral.

Whatever happened to minding your own business? I feel it is fairly immoral to attempt to set up citizens to watch each other on behalf of the government. Sounds an awful lot like tyranny to me, which I would equate with immorality.

You make some good points, but in the end I view things like this as the beginning of a slippery slope. If we can be conditioned to "inform" on our neighbors for one thing, how long before we're expected to inform on each other for everything else the mayor or anyone else "in charge" decides shouldn't be going on?

On the other hand, when you see a crime in progress, don't you call 911? He did specify "illegal" guns.

What about Neighborhood Watch programs? Citizens watching out for each other and reporting problems. Some times it is good when people don't simply "mind their own business." Just because this program involves guns doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea.

der Teufel wrote: On the other hand, when you see a crime in progress, don't you call 911? He did specify "illegal" guns.

What about Neighborhood Watch programs? Citizens watching out for each other and reporting problems. Some times it is good when people don't simply "mind their own business." Just because this program involves guns doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea.

Calling 911 isn't 'anonymous', you will be fully held for making a false report if you call 911. Same with Neighborhood watch. People know who you are when you report something.

If you want to see what anonymity does to people, just surf youtube comments sometime... Warning: It may actually lower your IQ to do so.

74novaman wrote: You make some good points, but in the end I view things like this as the beginning of a slippery slope. If we can be conditioned to "inform" on our neighbors for one thing, how long before we're expected to inform on each other for everything else the mayor or anyone else "in charge" decides shouldn't be going on?

Don't think I would consider calling the police on criminal behavior to be "informing" on my neighbors. Neighborhoods go downhill usually because residents allow it to happen by tolerating bad behavior. I don't like my neighborhood association because I think they are a bunch of nosey busy bodies who like to write notes about my unmowed grass, but I willingly pay the annual fee because if they were not doing their job the neighborhood would go down the tube.

The only issue I have with this program is the focus on guns. In our society, we have completly removed the impact of free will on how people behave and focus entirely on objects. It was as if we believe hard core gang bangers would play jump rope and jax if they didn't have guns to shoot each other with.

We played jump rope and jax when I was a kid and we had access to significant firepower. The fact we did not have shootouts in the street had nothing to do with the availability of guns. The difference is in what people teach their children about proper behaviour and respect for life and what families/neighbors tolerate in their communities.

All that said, I'd call the police in a heartbeat if there were punk kids packing guns in front of my house. That's easily distinguishable from the neighbors loading up their car for a trip to the range.

The difference is in what people teach their children about proper behaviour and respect for life and what families/neighbors tolerate in their communities

Seems like parents today aren't teaching their kids anything. Television and videos are doing the educating. Something about it takes the whole village to raise a child. But there is no scrutiny of the villagers. So it's just turn your kid loose in the streets and he'll learn.

der Teufel wrote:On the other hand, when you see a crime in progress, don't you call 911? He did specify "illegal" guns.

What about Neighborhood Watch programs? Citizens watching out for each other and reporting problems. Some times it is good when people don't simply "mind their own business." Just because this program involves guns doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea.

Absolutely I would call 911 if I saw a strange van in front of a neighbors house with a bunch of guys loading up furniture. I just have a feeling most people, especially in NJ, will see an "illegal" gun every time they see anyone with a long case being carried out to a car, or any gun. Seems to me this will create a lot of harassment of legal gun owners, which I'm sure the mayor won't mind.

You seem to have a lot of faith in the sheeple of NJ's ability to differentiate between a legal and illegal gun. I just don't share your positive outlook I guess.

74novaman wrote:

der Teufel wrote:On the other hand, when you see a crime in progress, don't you call 911? He did specify "illegal" guns.

What about Neighborhood Watch programs? Citizens watching out for each other and reporting problems. Some times it is good when people don't simply "mind their own business." Just because this program involves guns doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea.

Absolutely I would call 911 if I saw a strange van in front of a neighbors house with a bunch of guys loading up furniture. I just have a feeling most people, especially in NJ, will see an "illegal" gun every time they see anyone with a long case being carried out to a car, or any gun. Seems to me this will create a lot of harassment of legal gun owners, which I'm sure the mayor won't mind.

You seem to have a lot of faith in the sheeple of NJ's ability to differentiate between a legal and illegal gun. I just don't share your positive outlook I guess.

I just don't believe that any guns should be illegal.
guns don't break laws, and the gun laws in New Jersey are draconian and probably unconstitutional. Some laws deserve to be broke. Anyone who would turn someone in in New Jersey for Possessing a gun on the streets isn't much better than the Red Communist that turned in their neighbors for attending church. Both are human rights issues. Just because civil rights abuse happens in America doesn't mean we should be more tolorant of it. New Jersey's gun laws are oppressive and those who support them are contributers to these civil rights abuse.

A civic minded citizen would report everyone who works for the government.

roberts wrote:A civic minded citizen would report everyone who works for the government.

This NASA employee is offended by that remark.

Lodge2004 wrote:Don't think I would consider calling the police on criminal behavior to be "informing" on my neighbors. Neighborhoods go downhill usually because residents allow it to happen by tolerating bad behavior. I don't like my neighborhood association because I think they are a bunch of nosey busy bodies who like to write notes about my unmowed grass, but I willingly pay the annual fee because if they were not doing their job the neighborhood would go down the tube.

I guess it depend where we draw the line on the "criminal behavior" to be reported to the authorities. Reporting nonviolent gun ownership to the authorities in New Jersey reminds me of people reporting Romani and Jews to the authorities in Germany 65-70 years ago. One big difference being the US Constitution says we all have the right to own and carry guns.

74novaman wrote:

srothstein wrote:I guess I am weird but I don't see a problem with the program. I see it being abused by gang members getting revenge on their opposition but the basic program is not illegal or immoral.

Whatever happened to minding your own business? I feel it is fairly immoral to attempt to set up citizens to watch each other on behalf of the government. Sounds an awful lot like tyranny to me, which I would equate with immorality.

You make some good points, but in the end I view things like this as the beginning of a slippery slope. If we can be conditioned to "inform" on our neighbors for one thing, how long before we're expected to inform on each other for everything else the mayor or anyone else "in charge" decides shouldn't be going on?

Rival gang members have always had the ability to turn each other in to eliminate competition without the $1,000. Although it happens occasionally, the practice isn't widespread today because they realize that where that "slippery slope" leads would not be beneficial to their long term "business" and personal interests.

Good citizens are likewise unrestrained from reporting criminal conduct of any type to make their communities safer. Pouring motivational money into the mix will bring out the worst, rather than the best, in people.

However well intentioned (or not) Newark's mayor may be, history clearly shows that a nation riddled with paid informers is one of the critical underpinnings of tyranny wherever it has flourished. This practice is also absent where liberty prevails. I cannot support anything that tries to put this ugly building block in place, regardless of how innocent the excuse sounds today.

Newark's program is worth watching to see how gullible its citizens are. My hope is that there won't be a whole lot of takers.

Illegally carrying? Then I'm all for the program.

Even if there is the worry for abuse as far as neighbor vs. neighbor goes, I"ll gladly take that if it means more illegal guns are off the streets.

Johnathanf, not to take a direct shot at you, but are the guns you referred to "illegal", or are the persons in posession of the guns actually the ones in violation of the law?

I believe that firearms owners need to be very careful with words and phrases that can be misused. I cringe every time I hear, or read the statement "Get the illegal guns off the streets".


surv

Jonathanaf wrote:Illegally carrying? Then I'm all for the program.

Even if there is the worry for abuse as far as neighbor vs. neighbor goes, I"ll gladly take that if it means more illegal guns are off the streets.

What about illegal books and illegal religions? I think we need a hotline to report those!