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Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:11 pm
by timdsmith72
dicion wrote:So yes, I feel that in addition to Arson, Trespassing, and the numerous other laws they've broken to do this, they should also be charged under Title 18, Chapter 33 as well!
Throw the book at em, I say, and If I catch someone in the act of doing this to my property, I'll be throwing something else at them entirely... Lead.
Thank you for pointing that out!! I'm at work and didn't have time to read the article entirely, I just skimmed it.
So yeah!! Throw the book at 'em!!
And I, too, will be throwing something considerably more lethal than books if I ever catch somebody doing this on my property.
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:13 pm
by dicion
Drewthetexan wrote:Just a thought: I wonder how many people leave their flags out at night without "proper illumination". And of those not following the flag code, who would be upset that their offensive display got smoked by someone. Some people really get their dander up when they see any violation, and they consider it a serious offense to have the flag out at night unilluminated. I'm not trying to draw a corollary between an improper display and burning, but I am trying to draw attention to varying levels of respect for the flag.
I agree, this is true. Some people don't bring it inside for harsh weather either, insisting that it is an 'All Weather Flag'.. That can go either way.
However, to me, having served under the flag, there is only one way to treat and display it, and that's with the utmost of respect.
The flag represents many things to many people. To me, the Number One thing it represents, is every member of our Military, past and recent, who has died serving it.
Even if you don't agree with the current government (people actually do?), even if you think this nation is nowhere where it needs to be, even if you think
that our Military shouldn't be where it currently is, to me, that is no reason to disrespect the flag.
Politicians don't die for their country, they just send other people to do it for them. Blame them for bad decisions. Not our men and women over there actually doing it.
Everyday Americans who have taken an oath to protect the flag by serving their country are the ones that do. It is to them that I pay my respect to the flag for.
But.. that's just me
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:59 pm
by LaserTex
And mine is up every day of the year...and it is lit every night of the year. It is replaced every 2 months (July 1st) and the retired ones are burned during our annual Memorial Day weekend family reunion on the Frio river.
Doug
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:12 pm
by Captain Matt
dicion wrote:Legally, if you catch someone in the act of committing arson, you are within your rights to shoot them to prevent it.
That sounds good to me.
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:13 pm
by Locke
Unfortunately no federal or state flag code is legally enforceable. I wish it wasn't so.
The courts have taken a wide view of freedom of expression and decided that flag desecration is protected as are some other activities some would find offensive.
In this case you'd have to prosecute the burners for destruction of private property, vandalism, etc..
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:18 pm
by Locke
Flag burning isn't arson per the Texas Penal Code unless you could claim that the fire would spread from the flag to something in section 1 or 2 like a building:
Sec. 28.02. ARSON. (a) A person commits an offense if he starts a fire or causes an explosion with intent to destroy or damage:
(1) any vegetation, fence, or structure on open-space land; or
(2) any building, habitation, or vehicle:
(A) knowing that it is within the limits of an incorporated city or town;
(B) knowing that it is insured against damage or destruction;
(C) knowing that it is subject to a mortgage or other security interest;
(D) knowing that it is located on property belonging to another;
(E) knowing that it has located within it property belonging to another; or
(F) when he is reckless about whether the burning or explosion will endanger the life of some individual or the safety of the property of another.
(b) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (a)(1) that the fire or explosion was a part of the controlled burning of open-space land.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(2)(A) that prior to starting the fire or causing the explosion, the actor obtained a permit or other written authorization granted in accordance with a city ordinance, if any, regulating fires and explosions.
(d) [amended 9/1/97] An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree, except that the offense is a felony of the first degree if it is shown on the trial of the offense that:
(1) bodily injury or death was suffered by any person by reason of the commission of the offense; or
(2) the actor committed the offense knowing that the property intended to be damaged or destroyed was a place of worship.
Before 9/1/97 (d) provided:
(d) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree, unless bodily injury or death is suffered by any person by reason of the commission of the offense, in which event it is a felony of the first degree.
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:23 pm
by Captain Matt
A flagpole is a structure.
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:40 pm
by mikeintexas
LaserTex wrote:
And mine is up every day of the year...and it is lit every night of the year. It is replaced every 2 months (July 1st) and the retired ones are burned during our annual Memorial Day weekend family reunion on the Frio river.
Doug
That is a couple of great traditions!
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:14 pm
by stevie_d_64
0800 - Flag goes up...If I am home on the weekend...If the suns up in the morning before 0800, I'll put it up before I would go to work...
Sundown - Flag comes down...
(Old habits are hard to break...)
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:51 pm
by KD5NRH
(F) when he is reckless about whether the burning or explosion will endanger the life of some individual or the safety of the property of another.
The pole is my property, the grass is my property, and the sidewalk is my property. Burning polyester on them will damage any of the three.
As for illumination, since it's a wall-mounted pole, I just got a $20 pair of solar spotlights at WalMart, pointed one at the flag, and converted the other with IR LEDs to boost the quality of some of the surveillance video.
Another interesting note:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/r249.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
According to the British, surveillance cameras are a
much stronger deterrent to burglars than reinforced doors or neghborhood watch groups, so I would imagine the deterrent effect on vandals is pretty strong too.
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:49 pm
by USA1
stevie_d_64 wrote:0800 - Flag goes up...If I am home on the weekend...If the suns up in the morning before 0800, I'll put it up before I would go to work...
Sundown - Flag comes down...
(Old habits are hard to break...)
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:45 pm
by Jeff B.
A bit off topic, flag related, but not burning... When I was stationed @ Fort Polk, the flag ceremony (AM & PM) was a detail rotated amongst the Battalion sized units (IIRC). When it rolled around to us, you would normally hear a bit of pissing and moaning about the detail, but the guys onthe detail would practice over and over, and have their uniforms fit for an inspection, and go about their responsibilities with the reverence and devotion that it deserved. Not bad for a bunch of kids (mostly).
Back inthe 80's, when the 5th Division was still at Polk and things were revved up, I'd hate to have seen someone stage a protest that included a flag burning, it would have been an ugly scene.
I expect that those traditions and values are alive, well and fully respected at the various installations of all of our services today.
Jeff B.
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:04 pm
by LaserTex
and I have reminded a "down the street neighbor" that flags don't last forever, they are only $17 at the BX (Lackand) and offered (and took) his flag last Memorial Day. I am up to 18 flags now and would like to ask for help. Make it YOUR tradition...
Doug
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:51 pm
by Kevinf2349
My flags (front and back) are both illuminated for night time flying, but I rarely leave them out overnight.
I fly many different flags from the front pole which is attached to the house, but the back yard flag is usually "Old Glory". Nobody has ever messed with the flags at the front, and the rear flag is protected by the dawg too.
She follows me out every morning for the flag raising and every evening when I take it down. I call her my honor guard!
Re: American Flag Burned Outside Dallas Home, Again
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:55 pm
by USA1
Kevinf2349 wrote:My flags (front and back) are both illuminated for night time flying, but I rarely leave them out overnight.
I fly many different flags from the front pole which is attached to the house, but the back yard flag is usually "Old Glory". Nobody has ever messed with the flags at the front, and the rear flag is protected by the dawg too.
She follows me out every morning for the flag raising and every evening when I take it down. I call her my honor guard!
Very inspiring..there are still some of us left who love our country and love what the American flag stands for.