TexasCHLforum.com

We're just telling you the law.

Do we agree with it? Not necessarily.
Is it provable? Unless you literally walk out into the parking lot from the gun store/show, and sell it there, probably not.

However, if you buy a gun, with the intent of selling it to someone else, and you are not a licensed dealer, it is a crime.
Do people commit this crime every day? More than likely.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Beiruty wrote:So what if the friend ask you to buy him the firearm since he is so busy in his life.?

Then he's too busy to learn and practice good gun safety, and to busy to learn what he can and can't do under the law. Tell him to buy his own and quit using other people.

This sounds blindingly fishy. He can't take an hour to go to a gunstore to pick one or out or pick one up from an FFL dealer from an online purchase?
Does the phrase red flags going up ring a bell to you?

Disclaimer. I never had firearm resale ever, nor I dribble in gun sales. I am just wandering how does it make sense and how one can be guilty of felony and he does not know!

I have had a few guns I bought and turned around and sold right away simply because I didn't like something about the gun or because someone else fell in love with it. I live in a rural area and we only have two FFL dealers with any in stock and they are over 20 miles away.

I think there are at least three definitions of a "Straw Purchase". There is the one in the law. There is a literal interpretation of that law and there is the definition the BATFE wants to use at any given time to accomplish their goals.

The latter is an example of a "Leftists" interpretation of the law. Not a "liberal" interpretation that means it widens our ability to exercise our rights. A "Leftists" interpretation means they make the law mean what they want it to mean at any given time. Sort of like Obama’s definition of "reform" on health care. One day it means a government take-over and the next it means adjusting regulations. Just follow what the BATFE instructs at any given time and if their info is up to date you may or may not be harassed or arrested if you keep your gun buying and owning experiences to yourself.

Beiruty wrote:Disclaimer. I never had firearm resale ever, nor I dribble in gun sales. I am just wandering how does it make sense and how one can be guilty of felony and he does not know!

Ever heard that ignorance of the law is no excuse? It applies to all laws. It is very unlikely you would ever get arrested for this, in the situation you describe, unless some other circumstances created a chain of events that leads to you. Maybe a long pattern of buying guns and reselling them right away??? Even then I don't know that getting arrested is a very high probability. Many folks buy guns with the intentions of selling them later for a profit every day. They call themselves collectors...

I have wondered at times how many guns one would have to purchase before a flag is triggered and big brother comes knocking. I really believe the more likely situation would be if one of your friends commits a crime with a firearm and a check turned up that you supplied him with his guns.

I think many of you missed the spirit of the law. In my stupid mind, straw purchase should be defined as knowingly buying a firearm on behalf of a person who is otherwise ineligible to obtain the firearm legally on his/her own.

Buying for resell or for your CHL friends or friends who already legally own firearm should not be classified as "straw purchase."

Obviously ATF does not see things this way. They believe you can only buy firearm for yourself or as a gift to someone who is legally eligible to possess firearm. Any other variation leads you to the federal prison.

Stupid wrote:I think many of you missed the spirit of the law.

I don't think so. I think the 'spirit' of the law, is that ATF doesn't believe that an individual is intelligent enough to determine if selling a firearm to someone else is a good idea, so they want all sales to go through them and their NCIS Background check service.

frazzled wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Beiruty wrote:So what if the friend ask you to buy him the firearm since he is so busy in his life.?

Then he's too busy to learn and practice good gun safety, and to busy to learn what he can and can't do under the law. Tell him to buy his own and quit using other people.

This sounds blindingly fishy. He can't take an hour to go to a gunstore to pick one or out or pick one up from an FFL dealer from an online purchase?
Does the phrase red flags going up ring a bell to you?

I believe their is some stretched assumptions going on here, and that you guys might be a little harsh I can think of a few legitimate reasons why someone might want to have someone else buy a gun for them.

• Living in Galveston I have noticed that if Academy doesn't have it your gun going to either pay too much or going to have to drive a ways to get a particular gun. I drove to Port Arthur to purchase my last gun. Stupid laws could prevent a friend from buying if for someone and saving on gas and wear and tear.
• Some people physically have a hard time going to big box stores I will likely be buying a a shotgun for a relative this way. I may or may not let her reimburse me. Personally I don't care whether the feds like it or not. My primary duty to help is a family member is more important than some illegitimate federal rule
• Ever been to a store and seen something that you know a family member or good friend has been looking for at a good price, and you know the item isn't going to be around long. Shouldn't we be able to buy the item to get reimbursed later.

I believe that it is more important to allow good people to arm themselves than it is to prevent the bad people from getting guns. If Bad people have guns that they aren't supposed to have go ahead and toss em in jail. but these stupid federal laws that restrict good people from buying guns are unconstitutional as well as almost all the federal gun control laws. The constitutution clearly says our rights shall not be infringed. It says so without qualifier without reservations.

Some of you guys are making it more complicated than it is.

The form asks the following question: "Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person." Your choice how to answer but if you lie on the form they can prosecute for that.

Liberty wrote:

frazzled wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Beiruty wrote:So what if the friend ask you to buy him the firearm since he is so busy in his life.?

Then he's too busy to learn and practice good gun safety, and to busy to learn what he can and can't do under the law. Tell him to buy his own and quit using other people.

This sounds blindingly fishy. He can't take an hour to go to a gunstore to pick one or out or pick one up from an FFL dealer from an online purchase?
Does the phrase red flags going up ring a bell to you?

I believe their is some stretched assumptions going on here, and that you guys might be a little harsh I can think of a few legitimate reasons why someone might want to have someone else buy a gun for them.

• Living in Galveston I have noticed that if Academy doesn't have it your gun going to either pay too much or going to have to drive a ways to get a particular gun. I drove to Port Arthur to purchase my last gun. Stupid laws could prevent a friend from buying if for someone and saving on gas and wear and tear.
• Some people physically have a hard time going to big box stores I will likely be buying a a shotgun for a relative this way. I may or may not let her reimburse me. Personally I don't give a rats petuey whether the feds like it or not. My primary duty to help is a family member is more important than some illegitimate federal rule
• Ever been to a store and seen something that you know a family member or good friend has been looking for at a good price, and you know the item isn't going to be around long. Shouldn't we be able to buy the item to get reimbursed later.

I believe that it is more important to allow good people to arm themselves than it is to prevent the bad people from getting guns. If Bad people have guns that they aren't supposed to have go ahead and toss em in jail. but these stupid federal laws that restrict good people from buying guns are unconstitutional as well as almost all the federal gun control laws. The constitutution clearly says our rights shall not be infringed. It says so without qualifier without reservations.

............

It can get kind of silly. I was at a gun shop with a good friend. He wanted to purchase a gun, but his check card had expired. He had filled out the paperwork, so I offered my credit card to pay for the gun. They said, "Nope, that would be a straw purchase." So, we went out to his truck and found his checkbook, paid for the gun and all was well. I just thought it was interesting that he had to purchase the gun with his own credit card. I still think that wasn't exactly correct.

Beiruty wrote:Disclaimer. I never had firearm resale ever, nor I dribble in gun sales. I am just wandering how does it make sense and how one can be guilty of felony and he does not know!

Ignorance of the law is no excuse...

Geesh, how many times have we heard that one???

But to me, all of this leads me to believe that some people must want to nix the papertrail right after the point of sale...

So if the desire is to not allow some "entity" to know what ya got...Then this is kinda obvious here...

Loose lips sink ships...

But to me, all of this leads me to believe that some people must want to nix the papertrail right after the point of sale

stevie_d, I think you hit the nail on the head. IMO the straw purchase regulation was put there to prevent that sort of transaction. As far as I'm concerned, it's a necessary evil. I don't like it, but I don't like guns getting into criminal hands even more.

joe817 wrote:

But to me, all of this leads me to believe that some people must want to nix the papertrail right after the point of sale

stevie_d, I think you hit the nail on the head. IMO the straw purchase regulation was put there to prevent that sort of transaction. As far as I'm concerned, it's a necessary evil. I don't like it, but I don't like guns getting into criminal hands even more.

I know people who won't buy from any dealer because of this issue. They are trying to "stay off the radar". I used to do this myself, but it is just too much effort always trying to find the gun I want on the used market. I finally gave up and now I am all over the radar...

most of my firearms were purchased through ffl dealers, although I inherited some and bought others in face to face deals from people I know, or have reason to trust. My complaint is with the direction this thread wandered off into placing a cloud of suspicion on "unrecorded" face to face deals. The question I still seem to have unanswered in this discussion, particularly to those that seem to think there is something wrong with purchasing a firearm one day and later selling to another individual, is equal to a straw purchase. Again, if face to face transactions are legal in the State of Texas, how much time has to elapse between those legal transfers to avoid being acused of a straw purchase? Again, I said LEGAL transfers between a seller and buyer that are both legally qualified to purchase, own and possess a firearm.

still curious

surv