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Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:13 pm
by snorri
seamusTX wrote:The Swiss, French, and Belgians make excellent chocolate.

I don't base my purchases on the politics of the country that produced the products. If I did, I could hardly buy anything. That was the point that I was trying to make.

- Jim
If people based purchases on the politics where the company is located, nobody would buy a Kimber made in NY.

However, when a restaurant chooses to post an antigun sign, and there are other restaurants nearby with better food in the same price range, I think it makes more sense to eat where I'm welcome.

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:15 pm
by Abraham
Quite a large number of businesses have bogus no gun signs - I rather like them as I can ignore them. Whatever you do, say nothing to the management with such signs or they very well may install proper 30.06 signs.

Those businesses with proper 30.06 signs I dislike heartily and avoid.

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:20 pm
by seamusTX
snorri wrote:... I think it makes more sense to eat where I'm welcome.
If the business does not have metal detectors or guards frisking customers, your money is welcome.

These signs are posted because some corporate droid thought they were a good idea. They are an annoyance, nothing more.

- Jim

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:29 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
seamusTX wrote:
snorri wrote:... I think it makes more sense to eat where I'm welcome.
If the business does not have metal detectors or guards frisking customers, your money is welcome.

These signs are posted because some corporate droid thought they were a good idea. They are an annoyance, nothing more.

- Jim
:iagree: :iagree:

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:29 pm
by C-dub
Good call on the Belgian chocolates Jim. I've been there a couple of times and bring home as much as I can each time.

PJK, be careful in the doctors office. You may be aware that hospitals used to be off limits period, but they must post a proper 30.06 now and many doctor's offices are in the same building or an attached building to a hospital My own doctor still has the required sign, someone here mentioned once, but not a 30.06 sign. However, most of the time I'm there I'm to be examined and would disrobe enough to be unconcealed. As I'm not sure how my doctor or his staff would react to this I leave my weapon in my car. However, if I'm bringing my wife in or taking my daughter to her doctor I'm concealed.

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:19 pm
by shootthesheet
seamusTX wrote:Switzerland is not all that RKBA-friendly. They just have good public-relations people.

They require militia service from male adults, and allow them to keep their rifles afterward; but they prohibit carrying loaded weapons; and they are as restrictive of handguns as most of the rest of Europe.

- Jim
At a certain age they take away the automatics or select fire weapons and issue a bolt action rifle too. Has nothing to do with much of anything but I am trying to keep my mind off chocolate and this thread isn't helping any!

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:16 am
by PJK
C-dub wrote:Good call on the Belgian chocolates Jim. I've been there a couple of times and bring home as much as I can each time.

PJK, be careful in the doctors office. You may be aware that hospitals used to be off limits period, but they must post a proper 30.06 now and many doctor's offices are in the same building or an attached building to a hospital My own doctor still has the required sign, someone here mentioned once, but not a 30.06 sign. However, most of the time I'm there I'm to be examined and would disrobe enough to be unconcealed. As I'm not sure how my doctor or his staff would react to this I leave my weapon in my car. However, if I'm bringing my wife in or taking my daughter to her doctor I'm concealed.
Thanks for this clarification and advice. In this case I was taking my daughter and the office was a free standing building.

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:14 pm
by bdickens
boomerang wrote:
PJK wrote:Is this proper notification for me to return to my car and lock up my gun?
No. It's a suggestion to go spend your money somewhere else.

You can legally carry there, but why give money to people who advertise their intolerance of your civil rights? :headscratch
Some businesses post bogus signs on purpose, knowing they aren't enforceable.

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:29 pm
by ScottDLS
bdickens wrote:Some businesses post bogus signs on purpose, knowing they aren't enforceable.
I wonder if this is very common. My guess is that they really just don't know what they are doing. Especially the large chains and big company owned businesses. I ignore them.

Minor off topic: 03Lightningrocks -- Even though I'm sure I agree with your political sentiment as represented by your Avatar, it just disturbs me every time I see it. I keep getting this chill like I'm getting the evil eye... :shock: I can't keep looking at it for very long. Did you design it? Anyway, please don't take this as a personal attack, it's a great Avatar. I just wondered if anyone else had expressed a similar visceral reaction to it...

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:24 pm
by CWOOD
PJK, thanks for asking the question. By doing so in this forum you will learn more yourself and your inquiry may serve to inform others who didn't bother to ask.

It is important for all of us to go back to our DPS law handbook and learn by heart certain sections so that we know without asking what we should do in regards to where we can go and where we cannot. We all have to do this and it is important so that we can be responsible for our own activities. The law and law officers take the imroper possession of a firearm VERY seriously.

In regard to the 51% signs, be aware that these signs are advisory only. They are for notification purposes and do not carry the force of law that a 'proper' 30.06 sign does.

By that I mean that the violation is directly related to the nature of the establishment and not to the presence or absence of a 51% sign. For example, if you go to your local diner where they serve an occasion beer with a meal and they have incorrectly posted the 51% sign but, in fact, are not a 51% extablishment as determined by the Tx Alcoholic Bevrage Commission (TABC), you have not violated any law. Locations with a TABC permit get a package of signs and not all of them apply to every place that gets the package.

On the other hand, if you go to a straight out bar, and they have neglected to post a 51% sign as required, you have committed a violation regardless of the fact that a sign should have been posted but wasn't.

To repeat, the violation occurs when you carry inside, based on the TABC determined status of the business and NOT the presence or absence of a 51% sign.

The last legislature made a needed adjustment to the law regarding 51% signs and establishments and the change went into effect on 9-1-09. The law NOW states that the absence of a 51% sign in a true 51% location is now a "defense to prosecution". The unfortunate thing is that a defense to prosecution is only used at your trial. This means that you have already been charged, probably arrested, probably had your CHL suspended, probably already spent a fair sum of money on an attorney in order for you to assert your defense to prosecution in court.

Be very wary of entering a place that LOOKS like a bar. If it is a restaurant like Chili's or Texas Land and Cattle or any other regular restaurant that happens to sell alcohol by the drink, your are OK. If it LOOKS like a bar, and SMELLS like a bar and QUACKS like a bar, you better keep your shootin' iron outside.

On the other hand, in regard to the 30.06 sign, the properly constructed sign DOES carry the force of law...as do the other forms of notification provided for in section 30.06. Remember, proper notificaton under Section 30.06 can be an oral notification...someone comes up and tells you (no specific wording required), or someone hands you a card or other document. This must have the specific wording but no size or other requirements. Finally, the location management can choose to post a sign....block letters, 1" high, constasting colors, specific wording, English & Spanish, in a conspicuous location clearly visible to the public.

Now keep in mind that CHL holders probably know the specifics of this law better than most law enforcement and location owners. So if you go up to a place where the sign is adhesive letters on glass, or the letters are only 7/8" high, or there is a misspelled word or incorrect punctuation, I would be wary of these circumstances too. The old saying "you might beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" comes into play here. Also remember, that 30.06 refers to coming into a location after you recieved notice OR you later recieved noticed and then did not leave immediately.

Realistically though, a proper 30.06 sign will be about 2 feet by 3 feet in size it is a big sign because the letters are 1" high and there are a lot of letters. So something on a sheet of typing paper won't do it. Ignore it. A bumper sticker won't do it, a circle around a handgun with a cross through it won't do it.

I hope this helps. Now lets go re-read our "Texas Concealed Handgun Law and Selected Statutes".

Here is where you can get one to download if you don't have one:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good Luck

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:54 pm
by chamberc
CWOOD wrote:So if you go up to a place where the sign is adhesive letters on glass, or the letters are only 7/8" high, or there is a misspelled word or incorrect punctuation, I would be wary of these circumstances too. The old saying "you might beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" comes into play here.
This is something that is worth repeating... and is well stated here. Thanks CWOOD... If the wording of the 30.06 is correct but the size is wrong, you'll probably beat the rap, but it's going to cost you $$$$ as well as being a big inconvenience.

Great advice!

Concealed is Concealed!

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:49 pm
by PJK
Thank you CWOOD. This is a great answer.

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:09 pm
by boomerang
chamberc wrote:Concealed is Concealed!
So say we all!

Re: Non 30.06 Signs

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:54 pm
by John112709
Thanks for the post CWOOD! VERY easy to understand first read.