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This also brings in a good thing to think about for those of you that think they will have time to rack a slide. This guy didn't even have time to click off the safety, even though he had it out of the holster and hidden under his chest. The bad guy reacted to the sound of just the safety being clicked off and got off two shots before this guy could even return fire.

Again proving Missouri boys are tough (If you have not guessed it yet I am from MO)!

Keith B wrote:This also brings in a good thing to think about for those of you that think they will have time to rack a slide. This guy didn't even have time to click off the safety, even though he had it out of the holster and hidden under his chest. The bad guy reacted to the sound of just the safety being clicked off and got off two shots before this guy could even return fire.

Agreed

However, devil's advocate here...

He lost any chance of his 'surprise, I have a gun!' initiative roll when the BG saw his empty holster. (Yes, I made that reference. )

lesson: Don't let it get that far if you can before you draw and take out the trash.

All things considered, he did very well under the circumstances. He came out alive. That's a good end result.

Man oh man. Most of us probably think (and we all hope) that we will never need to use deadly force. This guy thought so too, but he found himself in that situation. It could happen to any of us at any time. Stay diligent.

It is real easy to sit back and Monday morning quarter back this situation but something I have thought about with it all. I don't think I would have let it get that far before drawing. I know I would never have allowed him to get me face down on the ground. My thinking is that once I allow him to get me down like that, he could simply shoot me in the back of the head instead of asking where the gun is. there are some real mean hombres out there and I have no doubt killing a person concerns them not.

This just adds reenforcement to my training. I like to take a tarp with me when I go shooting. I'll lay it down on the ground and and practice shooting laying on my side and back with strong and support hands. Another position is it lay on your back with your head towards the target. You'll end up holding your pistol and looking at the target upside down.
These various positions help simulate you having been pushed down to the ground, fallen, etc. Everyone should try to get away from the square range once in awhile and practice some situations that you may encounter. One should also practice getting off of the X. Stand and deliver will only result in you getting hurt. Not only does getting off of the X make you a harder to hit moving target but will also throw the attackers OODA loop off.

Neither bad guy or good guy could put together enough composure to place a good shot.

In defense of the good guy, he was already shot in both hands before he got a shot off. That is not something that is going to help in the composure department. The fact that he managed to get off two shots, clear a malfunction, and get off more shots while taking another hit is pretty impressive to me.

03Lightningrocks wrote:It is real easy to sit back and Monday morning quarter back this situation but something I have thought about with it all. I don't think I would have let it get that far before drawing. I know I would never have allowed him to get me face down on the ground. My thinking is that once I allow him to get me down like that, he could simply shoot me in the back of the head instead of asking where the gun is. there are some real mean hombres out there and I have no doubt killing a person concerns them not.

I too, was thinking about this when I was reading it the first time. He had time to draw and hide it underneath his self, but chose to wait and hope he wouldn't have to use it. While sitting in my comfiest armchair quarterback seat, I wonder if he would have faired better if he had opened fire when he first drew. He must have done that when the BG wasn't looking.

The only thing I would have tried to do differently is to be the first person through the door when moved inside. This would hopefully give me a chance to draw while blocked from the BG's view. I know in this case the GG was in the rear with a gun to his back though.

Keith B wrote:...The bad guy reacted to the sound of just the safety being clicked off and got off two shots before this guy could even return fire.

No "sound" when I "click the safety" off on my glock. This is one of the primary reasons my 1911 stays at home in the safe and my glock 27 leaves the house with me. If bg had not heard the click of the safety the gg might not be so shot up.

joe817 wrote:This was a real life incident from a CHL holder, who's not a LEO or military, or ex-military. This should be read and re-read. Thanks so much smyrna for posting this!

You're welcome. Same story on AR15.com with background of what lead up to the encounter...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=988015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Props to Blitz308. Sounds like he did the best he could with what he knew how to do.

I'm not going to second guess anything, but I'm certainly going to practice more and in different positions.

Docs said I'd have bled out in 15-20 minutes if the artery was hit. It took 15 min just for the ambulance to get there.

Time to add QuikClot to the wish list.

No "sound" when I "click the safety" off on my glock. This is one of the primary reasons my 1911 stays at home in the safe and my glock 27 leaves the house with me. If bg had not heard the click of the safety the gg might not be so shot up.

The odds that the sound of the safety had anything to do with it are pretty much nonexistent. The BG was reacting to the GG turning to get his shot off.

KD5NRH wrote:

Docs said I'd have bled out in 15-20 minutes if the artery was hit. It took 15 min just for the ambulance to get there.

Time to add QuikClot to the wish list.

No "sound" when I "click the safety" off on my glock. This is one of the primary reasons my 1911 stays at home in the safe and my glock 27 leaves the house with me. If bg had not heard the click of the safety the gg might not be so shot up.

The odds that the sound of the safety had anything to do with it are pretty much nonexistent. The BG was reacting to the GG turning to get his shot off.

thought the same thing until I started flipping safeties at the gun show yesterday. I love my glock- the only sounds it makes are the really loud ones.