Interesting CHL Discussion With My Boss

[pdubyoo]

I've been to several that were posted 30.06, but the most recent that comes to mind is the Chevron-Phillips facility in Pasadena on Jefferson Rd. In many facilities, I'm able to park in visitor's parking, as was mentioned in a post previously, but that's not always the case. It all depends on who I'm going to see, and if they are willing to come to the front office or gate to escort me to their office. Some of the places I go, it's to meet with the maintenance engineers over rotating equipment...engines, electric motors, compressors, etc. They usually don't want to come all the way to the gate to escort you in. They want you to have your TWIC card so you can come in un-escorted, and drive to their shop building. So, it varies. I might see 4 customers in a day that don't require me to drive past the visitor's lot, and one that does. That one skews the opportunity for me to carry that whole day.

The other point to make is that PC 30.05 specifically defines all these facilities as "critical infrasturcture facility", and says that it's a felony trespass with a weapon. I have not seen any "unless you are licensed" statements at the end of the "Criminal Trespass" section. So, I read that to mean that it applies to CHL as much as non-CHL. Maybe I'm wrong, and in this case, I would love to be wrong. If anyone has a better handle on this, I'd be interested in hearing it.

[pdubyoo]

Port Arthur, Beaumont, Orange, etc. facilities fall under 33 CFR 105 - maritime security regs for waterside facilities. September 11 changed the way a lot of us have to do business. Carrying a firearm into a federally regulated facility will result in a lot of attention you may not want. Kind of like trying to carry a gun in your pocket through airport security.

Depending upon the nature of materials manufactured and/or handled, there are other federal regulations which dictate security measures with which visitors and employees must comply. Most have to do with the fact that these are very dangerous places to work and MANY lives are dependent upon the safety exhibited by those present. Would you like to take the chance on some moron accidentally discharging a firearm into the side of a cyanide tank?

With that said, most facilities have parking lots outside the security gates for you to park your vehicle. You can have your firearm locked up inside your vehicle in the NON SECURE areas and not be in voilation of federal law. This is where the posting of 30.06 would come into play. Obviously if the parking lot was posted, it would be a no no.

I was at DuPont in Orange the other day, and they produce ethylene which will make a significant mushroom cloud! It is many many times more volatile than natural gas. You almost don't want to even sneeze around the stuff! They don't want phones or any other non-approved electronics inside their gate. I had to get special permission to bring my laptop in for use in one of the campus buildings. If you were to enter the gate with your vehicle, they will search it from top to bottom...glove box, console, under and behind seats, undercarriage, engine compartment, trunk, bags...everything. The last thing you want to hear is one of those guys yell "gun".

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Anyone:

Please define "TWIC" card, what you have to do to qualify,
and what rights/privileges it bestows upon its holder.

Thanks in advance.

SIA

[LarryH]

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[joe817]

Anyone: Please define "TWIC" card, what you have to do to qualify, and what rights/privileges it bestows upon its holder. Thanks in advance. SIA

It stands for Transportation Workers Identification Credentials. It's issued by the TSA. I know nothing about it but here's their website:

http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[surprise_i'm_armed]

LarryH and joe817:

Thanks for the link.

I now know what TWIC stands for, but the legalese
of all the details is stupefyingly boring.

SIA

[joe817]

LarryH and joe817: I now know what TWIC stands for, but the legalese of all the details is stupefyingly boring. SIA

I'd call it more confusing than anything. It appears to be issued to people who work for/in/around companies who have facilities at ocean ports. And it's required by TSA for people who need unrestricted access to TSA defined secured facilities.

It's not something just anyone can apply for, like you or I. A person has to work for a company that requires one to be issued to an employee. The ID card costs $132.50 and is good for 5 years.

If anything I said is incorrect, please correct me. As I have no need for one, I skimmed the FAQ's very quickly, just to get an idea of what its purpose is.

[Roger Howard]

LarryH and joe817: I now know what TWIC stands for, but the legalese of all the details is stupefyingly boring. SIA

I'd call it more confusing than anything. It appears to be issued to people who work for/in/around companies who have facilities at ocean ports. And it's required by TSA for people who need unrestricted access to TSA defined secured facilities.

It's not something just anyone can apply for, like you or I. A person has to work for a company that requires one to be issued to an employee. The ID card costs $132.50 and is good for 5 years.

If anything I said is incorrect, please correct me. As I have no need for one, I skimmed the FAQ's very quickly, just to get an idea of what its purpose is.

It is required for anyone needing access to any facility that is determined by TSA to be a "port" facility. The only exception would be a visitor who rarely visits and they are required to have an escort. Then their access is limited to office buildings. I only go into those facilities on occasion but I am required to Have a card for access. My company pays for my card.
They still don't search trucks like they do cars.

[Bart]

The other point to make is that PC 30.05 specifically defines all these facilities as "critical infrasturcture facility", and says that it's a felony trespass with a weapon. I have not seen any "unless you are licensed" statements at the end of the "Criminal Trespass" section. So, I read that to mean that it applies to CHL as much as non-CHL. Maybe I'm wrong, and in this case, I would love to be wrong. If anyone has a better handle on this, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Where do you see felony in 30.05?

I see trespassing upgrades to a class A misdemeanor "on or in a critical infrastructure facility; or (2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his person during the commission of the offense" but there's no double upgrade for both.

But if the guards let him in the gate, it looks like he's not trespassing because he got consent to enter.

[joe817]

It is required for anyone needing access to any facility that is determined by TSA to be a "port" facility. The only exception would be a visitor who rarely visits and they are required to have an escort. Then their access is limited to office buildings. I only go into those facilities on occasion but I am required to Have a card for access. My company pays for my card. They still don't search trucks like they do cars.

Thanks for the clarification Roger H.

Does TSA have a listing or directory of those "ports"? I know that DFW Int'l. is an international P.O.E., so does it come under that definition? Or any other international airport for that matter?

[Roger Howard]

It is required for anyone needing access to any facility that is determined by TSA to be a "port" facility. The only exception would be a visitor who rarely visits and they are required to have an escort. Then their access is limited to office buildings. I only go into those facilities on occasion but I am required to Have a card for access. My company pays for my card. They still don't search trucks like they do cars.

Thanks for the clarification Roger H.

Does TSA have a listing or directory of those "ports"? I know that DFW Int'l. is an international P.O.E., so does it come under that definition? Or any other international airport for that matter?

Sorry let me clarify a little more.. Sea Port or River Port not Air Port. Basically anywhere you could get a ship or barge in to load or unload it. Just think of the Mississippi River alone and how many states it covers. And as far as a directory, I don't think so.. but I have a TWIC so it doesn't matter to me. All of our drivers are required to have a TWIC. When I am dispatched on a load that requires a TWIC, it is noted in the special instructions on my company dispatch. If there were a list it would be a book.

[Tass]

Back in high school (mid 1980's), I was in photography and my father took me with him on some business calls to Pasadena, Port Arthur, etc for some industrial pictures. We were at a Shell refinery and I took a couple of close ups of the pipes, etc. for the angles and lines. A year or so later, there was an explosion at the plant and we pulled out the photographs and one showed the area that went blooey.

Most of the photos were taken from public areas outside the perimeter, can't remember why I pulled out the camera on-site for this one shot. I remember being told not to use it while I was waiting for him to finish. I 'usually' listened better than that.

Tass

[Roger Howard]

Back in high school (mid 1980's), I was in photography and my father took me with him on some business calls to Pasadena, Port Arthur, etc for some industrial pictures. We were at a Shell refinery and I took a couple of close ups of the pipes, etc. for the angles and lines. A year or so later, there was an explosion at the plant and we pulled out the photographs and one showed the area that went blooey.

Most of the photos were taken from public areas outside the perimeter, can't remember why I pulled out the camera on-site for this one shot. I remember being told not to use it while I was waiting for him to finish. I 'usually' listened better than that.

Tass

Now if you are seen taking photo's of a chemical plant outside of the perimeter without plant permission, You be spending some quality time with the local FBI