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southboundp wrote:Here's another little twist. Books-A-Million is a polling location in Abilene. That particular store is "in the mall." There are both exteral entrances to the store, as well as internal entrances from the mall itself. Is the ENTIRE MALL off limits, or just the store? Thank you.

I look at it like this? What do you think the arresting Officer would say?

marksiwel wrote:

southboundp wrote:Here's another little twist. Books-A-Million is a polling location in Abilene. That particular store is "in the mall." There are both exteral entrances to the store, as well as internal entrances from the mall itself. Is the ENTIRE MALL off limits, or just the store? Thank you.

I look at it like this? What do you think the arresting Officer would say?

Probably something like "Why are you letting your concealed gun show?"

Is the sign for No Cell phones on the mall door? If not, good to go. Not just guns, but cell phones must be off in polling places...can you imagine the cop running around the mall taking everyone's cell phones? Aint gonna happen

FWIW, we have a poll worker/judge meeting tonight. I will ask if there is an opportunity.

Okie dokie.... this is what I was told (and we know that anyone is bound to tell anything) tonight by the lady in charge of the voting office who taught our class....
That the problems with carrying/cell phones/candidate shirts in malls and stores where there is early voting is a problem created because they are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE VOTING THERE in the first place. That state law requires the voting to be in a segregated place so that no one can see you vote. That is why there are to be no audio/visual equipment at the polling areas, so no one but the ones voting will see you.

But again, no one is going to chase you down in the malls/stores, etc if your not in the area to vote and you have your cellie on or candidate shirt on.... so why would it be different with a CHL.

wgoforth wrote:Okie dokie.... this is what I was told (and we know that anyone is bound to tell anything) tonight by the lady in charge of the voting office who taught our class....
That the problems with carrying/cell phones/candidate shirts in malls and stores where there is early voting is a problem created because they are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE VOTING THERE in the first place. That state law requires the voting to be in a segregated place so that no one can see you vote. That is why there are to be no audio/visual equipment at the polling areas, so no one but the ones voting will see you.

But again, no one is going to chase you down in the malls/stores, etc if your not in the area to vote and you have your cellie on or candidate shirt on.... so why would it be different with a CHL.

I think it's different because a polling place is specifically listed as a 'prohibited place' for carry. Is there a similar specific statute that applies for cell phones?

I really would love an interpretation of 'premises' when it comes to early voting. If early voting is in Macy's at the mall, is the entire mall off limits or just Macy's? I live by a Randall's that was an early location, and clearly Randall's is the premises as well as the voting location. Macy's leases 'premises' from the landlord of the mall right, so I think Macy's is the premises. I operate a small business and lease space in strip center. My lease talks about 'premises' as what is leased to ME. So, seems to me that 'premises' pertains to the leased/owned subunit of whatever entity you are talking about. In the case of Randall's, it's Randall's. In the case of the mall, it seems to me that it should be the leased sub-unit of the mall where the actual polling place is.

Just my opinion, but this early voting stipulation has bugged me since I've had the CHL. Early voting doesn't mean that Randall's is no longer a grocery store. I wish the statue stipulated 'no carry while VOTING or working a polling center' in some capacity.

Some notes from the Election Code (I am an election judge too, this has been a good review ):

I did not read anything about voting places being required to be "segregated" but the voter must be the only one present at a voting station itself (i.e. where the voter marks a paper or electronic ballot) unless being assisted by an election worker or another person who has taken an oath of assistance. The specific law on where voting places may be is below. Note that if at all possible, electioneering must be permitted -- outside the 100 foot distance from the entrances...

SUBCHAPTER B. BUILDING FOR USE AS POLLING PLACE
Sec. 43.031. POLLING PLACE IN PUBLIC BUILDING. (a) In this subchapter, "public building" means a building owned or controlled by the state or a political subdivision.

(b) Each polling place shall be located inside a building.

(c) The building selected for a polling place shall be a public building if practicable. The entity that owns or controls a public building shall make the building available for use as a polling place in any election that covers territory in which the building is located. If more than one authority requests the use of the building for the same day and simultaneous use is impracticable, the entity that owns or controls the building shall determine which authority may use the building.

(d) If a suitable public building is unavailable, the polling place may be located in some other building, including a building on a federal military base or facility with the permission of the post or base commander, and any charge for its use is an election expense. A polling place may not be located in a building under this subsection unless electioneering is permitted on the building's premises outside the prescribed limits within which electioneering is prohibited, except that a polling place may be located in a building at which electioneering is not permitted if it is the only building available for use as a polling place in the election precinct.

I did not find anything that defines the premises of a polling place. WRT to concealed handgun carry, I would assume then that the CHL-statute definition would apply, or maybe the 100 foot no-electioneering zone. Perhaps the weapons-section of the penal code has something. If I wandered into a grocery store and found a voting station, I think I would just quietly finish my shopping and mosy on and not worry about it too much

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Cell phones are not banned from polling places (by Election Code, not Government or Penal Code). USE of cell phones is banned, except for election judges/clerks. I never heard that the reason for this was to avoid recording of who is voting (in fact, who voted is a matter of public record). I believe it is partly due to the policy that at the time he votes, the voter must make his own decision, without the influence of others. That's why people who will assist a voter, including election personnel and voter's relatives, must take an oath to not influence a voter by any means when assisting him. I believe the ban on image and sound recording devices has to do with spying on how a person actually votes, and trying to electronically affect computer voting machines. I may be wrong, the law does not say why, it only says the following:

Sec. 61.013. USE OF CERTAIN DEVICES. (a) A person may not use a wireless communication device within 100 feet of a voting station.

(b) A person may not use any mechanical or electronic means of recording images or sound within 100 feet of a voting station.

(c) The presiding judge may require a person who violates this section to turn off the device or to leave the polling place.

(d) This section does not apply to:

(1) an election officer in conducting the officer's official duties; or

(2) the use of election equipment necessary for the conduct of the election.

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The "magic distance" for no electioneering is 100 feet (not 50) from each entrance that provides access to the voters.

Sec. 85.036. ELECTIONEERING PROHIBITED. (a) During the time an early voting polling place is open for the conduct of early voting, a person may not electioneer for or against any candidate, measure, or political party in or within 100 feet of an outside door through which a voter may enter the building or structure in which the early voting polling place is located.

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From earlier post:

...HOWEVER, if you are a customer in the store and not voting, there is no way for the poll workers to do anything. That is the job of the judge, and the judges are not present at the early voting.

For early voting, early voting clerks and deputy clerks have the same authority as election judges.

Sec. 83.001. EARLY VOTING CLERK GENERALLY. (a) The early voting clerk shall conduct the early voting in each election.

(b) The clerk is an officer of the election in which the clerk serves.

(c) The clerk has the same duties and authority with respect to early voting as a presiding election judge has with respect to regular voting, except as otherwise provided by this title.

Sec. 83.031. DEPUTY EARLY VOTING CLERK GENERALLY. (a) Deputy early voting clerks may be appointed as provided by this subchapter to assist the early voting clerk.

(b) A deputy is an officer of the election in which the deputy serves.

(c) A deputy early voting clerk has the same authority as the early voting clerk in conducting early voting, subject to the early voting clerk's supervision.