Store “security”

[gwashorn]

Brings to mind an incident with my sister, who is a deputy sheriff working mall security for a big store. Astro99 is right, she could not stop you or look to check or anything. However, she was always dressed as a civilian and she saw a young man that she suspected had taken I believe a shirt. She could not stop or ask to see or anything. She thought he had taken a shirt. So she waited until he walked outside the store and stopped him saying she notice he was looking at some shirts she thought would look good on her nephew and wanted to know what he thought. So he opened up the package to show her. The rest was history. Now that wasn't nice was it?

Gary.

[glocklvr]

I will not submit to a search by anyone less than a sworn LEO.

+1 and nobody other than a sworn LEO will take control of my weapon without a fight

[frazzled]

"I'm willing to cooperate once you have a police officer on scene."

This is the only acceptable response.
They will do so, assuming again your thread dictate that there is not one on site. I would not attempt to leave the location or anything of that manner, but as another poster noted, no one would be permitted to touch you.

[RPB]

The “Disorderly Conduct ticket” thread has brought something to mind I have been wondering about for quite some time.

I don’t like “what if’s” any more than anyone else but I believe the chances of this scenario happening to a CHL holder are fairly high.

You are shopping and store “security” mistakenly thinks you are shoplifting, sees the bulge under your shirt and thinks it is merchandise, or whatever. Putting aside his authority to “detain” or search you, let’s say he decides to disarm you and he is not a law enforcement officer. Let’s say he is obviously under 21 and just someone the store hired for "security".

How far should you go to prevent him from seizing your firearm? How should you handle this?

I asked almost this identical question when I first got my CHL, except I asked about them/Walmart door greeter etc. looking in my waistpack/fannypack, because I had Seaworld or Six Flags or some Amusement park once search our fanny packs about 30 or 40 years ago that prohibited knives/guns etc. and they searched EVERYONE'S PURSE and fanny pack who entered. (They can't now, and weren't supposed to then.)

After getting replies from others here I learned no civilian has a right to search me, I can choose to wait and tell them to "call the police if you have a problem" and when the LEO arrives present my ID and Concealed Handgun License and explain to him that is the reason I am not allowing store employees to search me because I'd be in violation of not being "concealed" ... If you intentionally reveal your concealed handgun to a store employee, you are in violation. You have no duty to show your license to a store employee, and you better not show him your gun.

Or I could choose to walk to my car and get in and see if they decide to try to detain/citizen's arrest/assault me, in which case I might file a suit later, in order to teach them not to do that.

And, no store employee of any age is disarming me or getting their hands on my license, unless they are recognized as a certified peace officer by the State of Texas. Inter alia, 1) I don't want that store employee to accidently shoot himself 2) He has no right to disarm/assault me or deprive me of my property 3) I have no insurance if he negligently discharges my gun injuring any person or property......

If you desire to, and have the time to wait for police, you can, and show the LEO your Concealed Handgun License .... If you want to wait around and do that.... Might be worth it to see that employee's face as the manager watches while the LEO explains it to them.

[frazzled]

2nd degree black belt carrying a 45. Good luck.

There's no reason to go there. If there is an issue call a cop. There should be no circumstance where they touch you. If they touch you, then thats battery and the above applies.

[A-R]

I agree:

1. this scenario is unlikely
2. the solution is to wait for LEO (I like the idea of calling LEO first, so you can be the complainant - brilliant)

but the caveat, if you're truly stopped because of a bulge in your clothing that is caused by your gun underneath ...

DON'T WAIT FOR THE ROUND ROCK POLICE

They're likely to arrest you for "unlawful carry by a concealed handgun license holder"

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... lit=cuffed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Excaliber]

I agree:

1. this scenario is unlikely
2. the solution is to wait for LEO (I like the idea of calling LEO first, so you can be the complainant - brilliant)

but the caveat, if you're truly stopped because of a bulge in your clothing that is caused by your gun underneath ...

DON'T WAIT FOR THE ROUND ROCK POLICE

They're likely to arrest you for "unlawful carry by a concealed handgun license holder"

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... lit=cuffed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another response that I understand has been used before and might reduce the time required to resolve the situation would be to explain that you have a serious medical condition that requires a bulky portable device be attached to you whenever you're away from the home unit. For privacy reasons the nature of the condition and the device are both out of bounds for questions. End of story.

[VoiceofReason]

Part of the reason for my original post was due to the fact my ex-son in law was hired for "store security" at the age of 18. He once followed someone outside and when he confronted the person, the person ran. He actually tackled the guy and received a few good punches before subduing him. The guy was in fact shoplifting but I thought my ex-son in law was pretty dumb and lucky he didn’t get stabbed or shot.

Overzealous security at any place can believe you did something that you didn’t do and with the number of CHL holders climbing, I believe it is just a matter of time until one of us runs into one of these people.

[RPB]

Part of the reason for my original post was due to the fact my ex-son in law was hired for "store security" at the age of 18. He once followed someone outside and when he confronted the person, the person ran. He actually tackled the guy and received a few good punches before subduing him. The guy was in fact shoplifting but I thought my ex-son in law was pretty dumb and lucky he didn’t get stabbed or shot.

Overzealous security at any place can believe you did something that you didn’t do and with the number of CHL holders climbing, I believe it is just a matter of time until one of us runs into one of these people.

A year ago in Ill. (Although they are refering to Illinois "state laws" not Texas laws Walmart got sued probably.) I know of suits against a -Mart store for just detaining a person an extended period of time non-violently in Texas.
http://indieregister.wordpress.com/2009 ... -showdown/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bdickens]

As some others have said, no one who is not an LEO is going to search or detain me.

[Excaliber]

Part of the reason for my original post was due to the fact my ex-son in law was hired for "store security" at the age of 18. He once followed someone outside and when he confronted the person, the person ran. He actually tackled the guy and received a few good punches before subduing him. The guy was in fact shoplifting but I thought my ex-son in law was pretty dumb and lucky he didn’t get stabbed or shot.

Overzealous security at any place can believe you did something that you didn’t do and with the number of CHL holders climbing, I believe it is just a matter of time until one of us runs into one of these people.

Overzealous becomes illegal when it results in restriction of movement or physical contact with no justification in law, and persons confronted by such an individual have remedies available to them.

The good news is - this is in fact very rarely an issue. As others have said, most store security personnel are trained to let potential thieves go rather than accost someone who could be either innocent or violent.

[Fangs]

I had a goofball friend in high school who worked security for Target in New Braunfels. After two or three "chase them down and beat them into submission" situations, he got fired.

Though it's unlikely that a well trained security guard will hassle you over your gun, you never know about the new guy. Could be his first day on the job and he's looking to make a good impression with his keen eyesight and impressive ninja skills.

[davidtx]

I had a goofball friend in high school who worked security for Target in New Braunfels. After two or three "chase them down and beat them into submission" situations, he got fired.

Though it's unlikely that a well trained security guard will hassle you over your gun, you never know about the new guy. Could be his first day on the job and he's looking to make a good impression with his keen eyesight and impressive ninja skills.

How long ago was this?

[Fangs]

Roughly 5 or 6 years ago. Granted I didn't witness any of these accounts, and had only his version of the story to go from. He allegedly put up a tip jar for himself as well.

This was at the old location across the HEB, where the Gatti's and Movie theater were (Walnut St.), not the new location out by FM306.

[davidtx]

I'm surprised he was still there after one of them. I thought if this was something that happened 15+ years ago, then maybe management would have let it slide. But even 5 or 6 years ago, I would have expected Target to be very, very sensitive to this kind of behavior.