TexasCHLforum.com

marksiwel wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Should car rentals be legal?

well they only rent to people with a license...

They only rent guns for use at that range, as far as I know. They rent cars and trucks for use on public roads, well away from any owner supervision. Big difference.

It should be legal. It should also be standard practice at the range to keep an eye on new shooters and hot dogs.

Yes, it should be not only legal but encouraged. I don't do it but I will not support any restriction. Many of the new shooters over the last few years would never have become owners and shooters if they did not have easy access to rentals. I won't support restricting car rentals because some people will misuse those tools and I certainly will not support restrictions on this kind of business because it introduces many people to this right.

shootthesheet wrote:Yes, it should be not only legal but encouraged. I don't do it but I will not support any restriction. Many of the new shooters over the last few years would never have become owners and shooters if they did not have easy access to rentals. I won't support restricting car rentals because some people will misuse those tools and I certainly will not support restrictions on this kind of business because it introduces many people to this right.

Even the restriction of gun access to those who have been determined to have committed felonies, domestic violence, and suffer from dangerous mental illness? I'm promise that I'm not trying to start a fight, I really want to know if you are against NICS background checks, as I suspect many here are.

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote:

shootthesheet wrote:Yes, it should be not only legal but encouraged. I don't do it but I will not support any restriction. Many of the new shooters over the last few years would never have become owners and shooters if they did not have easy access to rentals. I won't support restricting car rentals because some people will misuse those tools and I certainly will not support restrictions on this kind of business because it introduces many people to this right.

Even the restriction of gun access to those who have been determined to have committed felonies, domestic violence, and suffer from dangerous mental illness? I'm promise that I'm not trying to start a fight, I really want to know if you are against NICS background checks, as I suspect many here are.

Embalmo

The people you mentioned prey on the weak. If history is any indication, which it typically is, there's not much to worry about from these people at a gun range.

It should be as legal as renting bowling shoes and beach houses.

A private party (business) can have strict policies for their rentals, but they have no right to use government gunmen to impose their policies on their business competitors.

Embalmo wrote:

shootthesheet wrote:Yes, it should be not only legal but encouraged. I don't do it but I will not support any restriction. Many of the new shooters over the last few years would never have become owners and shooters if they did not have easy access to rentals. I won't support restricting car rentals because some people will misuse those tools and I certainly will not support restrictions on this kind of business because it introduces many people to this right.

Even the restriction of gun access to those who have been determined to have committed felonies, domestic violence, and suffer from dangerous mental illness? I'm promise that I'm not trying to start a fight, I really want to know if you are against NICS background checks, as I suspect many here are.

Embalmo

Yes, those that cannot be trusted with a gun should be either in prison at hard labor or in an institution or otherwise removed from society until they can prove they can be trusted with any dangerous item. The idea that a gun is any more deadly than anything that can be used as a weapon is beyond my understanding. As for felons I think non-violent felons should lose their rights for a time but they should be fully restored. Without criminals and the mentally ill who are violent we have no need for any gun laws at all. Our laws already address denying others their rights to include murder, rape, robbery, etc…

Embalmo wrote:My assertion is that gun rentals can, and have attracted crazies and dangerously inexperienced shooters to the gun ranges, so I don't have problem with them requiring a CHL to rent a gun.

I know of dangerous, inexperienced CHL holders...I think the answer is to just ban guns altogether.

In all seriousness, I disagree with your point. Most ranges I have been to, and definitely those I frequent have safety officers either there or monitoring the lane video cameras. They seem to keep a lid on most of the foolishness. I can fill in the gaps they leave.

shootthesheet wrote:Yes, those that cannot be trusted with a gun should be either in prison at hard labor or in an institution or otherwise removed from society until they can prove they can be trusted with any dangerous item. The idea that a gun is any more deadly than anything that can be used as a weapon is beyond my understanding. As for felons I think non-violent felons should lose their rights for a time but they should be fully restored. Without criminals and the mentally ill who are violent we have no need for any gun laws at all. Our laws already address denying others their rights to include murder, rape, robbery, etc…

Not quite sure if you do or don't support NICS background. It sound like you don't believe in NICS background checks because anyone who isn't safe with a gun is currently incarcerated? Am I right that you don't believe in NICS background.

Embalmo

>Should Gun Renting Be Legal?

yes.
Making it illegal is a 'solution' to a non-existent problem.

You keep asking everyone if they are opposed to the NICS. Is this thread about gun rentals or NICS background checks? It sounds like you would be fine with someone renting a gun if they passed the NICS. I for one am totally opposed to the NICS because it is a seriously flawed system that deprives honest law abiding citizens of their legal right to purchase a firearm.

I speak from personal experience. NO ONE has a cleaner record than I do. However, because some jerk with a record in NJ has the same first, last, and middle initial as me (I have the 4th most popular name in the US) and happened to be born the same day I was - I get denied by NICS and treated like a criminal by the FFL I just tried to purchase a gun from. Forget that we have different SS#'s, were born and live thousands of miles from each other, and look nothing alike.

When I questioned the FBI and told them to check my SS# or even my military service records which contains my finger prints they simply replied that the NICS system was name based only and if I wanted to distingish myself from this other guy they would be glad to send me a kit so that I could become registered with the FBI. LIKE I WAS SOME KIND OF SEX OFFENDER!

Want to know the problem with the NICS? Felons don't use it. IMHO the NICS is no different than a 30.06 sign, both deprive honest people the ability to their right of self defense.

jmra wrote:You keep asking everyone if they are opposed to the NICS. Is this thread about gun rentals or NICS background checks? It sounds like you would be fine with someone renting a gun if they passed the NICS.

Of course they are related-Gun rentals without NICS or a CHL, logically speaking, circumvents the NICS process. You believe that criminal background checks should be done away with completely, so you are intellectually honest in your conviction that gun rentals without a CHL or NICS should be allowed.

Yes-I would prefer a NICS or a CHL for gun rentals because I believe the woman that shot her son in the head in Florida would have done it anyway, but probably not at a gun range.

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote:

jmra wrote:You keep asking everyone if they are opposed to the NICS. Is this thread about gun rentals or NICS background checks? It sounds like you would be fine with someone renting a gun if they passed the NICS.

Of course they are related-Gun rentals without NICS or a CHL, logically speaking, circumvents the NICS process. You believe that criminal background checks should be done away with completely, so you are intellectually honest in your conviction that gun rentals without a CHL or NICS should be allowed.

Yes-I would prefer a NICS or a CHL for gun rentals because I believe the woman that shot her son in the head in Florida would have done it anyway, but probably not at a gun range.

Embalmo

Wow! You completely ignored the rest of my post. So would you also like private sales to be subject to NICS?

Embalmo wrote:Yes-I would prefer a NICS or a CHL for gun rentals because I believe the woman that shot her son in the head in Florida would have done it anyway, but probably not at a gun range.

If you want to teach a friend to shoot, should they need a CHL or a NICS "proceed" first?

cbr600 wrote:

Embalmo wrote:Yes-I would prefer a NICS or a CHL for gun rentals because I believe the woman that shot her son in the head in Florida would have done it anyway, but probably not at a gun range.

If you want to teach a friend to shoot, should they need a CHL or a NICS "proceed" first?

I like that question. I'm cool with people going with friends and family that have acquired their gun legally. Is that answer intellectually honest? Not really, but I guess I'm a snob that wants to make sure the criminals with their ill-gotten guns play in another yard.

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote: Of course they are related-Gun rentals without NICS or a CHL, logically speaking, circumvents the NICS process.

It doesn't circumvent anything, because NICS is not part of renting a gun. Because no transfer is taking place, it would actually be a crime ("making a false statement") to perform a NICS check on a rental.

There is no transfer taking place when a gun is rented. It is, and remains, the range's gun. The gun doesn't go anywhere, it stays on the range. Would you insist on a NICS every time a clerk hands a gun to a customer?