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texjames wrote:I am looking at a Ruger LCP and tempted to go get it today if the Gun Shop still has it. I have a Glock 33 that is ok when wearing a coat or jacket but even with a IWB it shows the grip under my shirt tail.
I used to use my old S&W 380 but its old and ready for retirement.I have already ordered a Crossbreed Mini-Tuck for the LCP since it takes a while.The LCP should ride nice under T-Shirt tail which is what i wear most of the time.I have about 400 rounds of .380 thats a few years old i can break it in with until i can find some Hornady Critical Defense ammo.

Why did you go with the MiniTuck vs the MicroClip? Have you seen comparisons that make the MiniTuck a better option for LCP? I'm "considering" one of these two Crossbread models as well, but one reason I went with Mini Mouse here was to ensure absolute concealment - with NO CLIPS showing and no velcro deals to worry about. The clips on both these MiniTuck & MicroClip models appear to go over belts - specifically 1 1/2" (vs. the 1 1/4" that I typically wear) and would therefore show. Those familiar with concealed carry options would defintely pick up that something of the sort is likely being carried under there - if having shirts tucked in. And in 30.06 areas, I would still have holster on and clips showing - just wouldn't be armed. Leaves option for more questioning, close looks, etc.

My opinion (thus far) is that you'll love the LCP - highly recommend the Crimson Trace (CT) Laser - cheapest price I found for CT was at pocketholsters.com ($159). You may want to try to "catch" your order with Crossbread ASAP if you can and consider adjusting order to accomodate the LCP with Crimson Trace (CT).

G26TR wrote:

G192627 wrote:Nice carry piece, yes. Hope it's not your primary carry piece though.
It seems like these convenient mouse guns are making it easy for those of us that carry to get lazy and stop carrying real guns when possible.

I am in the market for a mouse gun too, but only plan on carrying every now and then when carrying a Glock isn't possible or feasible.

Let's start a new thread on this topic (please) because this is precisely what's happening with me. I'm discouraged to carry my Glock 26 now that I've proven amazing accuracy & comfort with my Ruger LCP. I may be able to carry the G26 IWB in my M-Tac holster, but it is much more inconvenient to put on & take off all the time - and while somewhat comfortable, it certainly is nowhere close to the comfort, convenience, & stealthness of pocket-carrying the LCP 100%.

Am I really at a tremendous disadvantage by carrying the LCP over the Glock 26?

Just to get the topic going - only disadvantages I see are: 1) 3 less round capacity, 2) less presentation value (i.e., beefy Glock vs. mini-mouse) - although I think I gain some points back with laser "I mean businesss" showing, 3) .380 vs. 9mm stopping/penetration power, and 3) Reliability (although this last point hasn't proven a difference for me - as no failures thus far - even in break-in period).

I think you should start a new thread. It's worth the discussion.
My $0.02:

The little mouse guns are fine for what they are, and are definitely better than nothing, but I personally wouldn't want to fall into that 'lazy' trap of not carrying a G26 or something similar because of one because of several reasons:

1) The obvious caliber war... I think .380 goes below the acceptable caliber strength for daily carry.

2) Being outgunned in a worst case scenario... (i.e. in a restaurant and a shooter begins shooting a-la Luby's. If you had your G26, would you feel outgunned? Likely not. You can shoot that G26 at the BG from quite a distance and have good faith in stopping him... replay that scenario with your LCP on you only. I'd feel badly outgunned)
Granted, this also plays into caliber issues, but I'm also just referring to the quality of gun between Glock and a little Ruger/Keltec/Taurus mouse gun.
I carry either a G26,27,19, or 32. The 32 is my gun 'big boy' gun, but with all 4, I'd never feel outgunned against another shooter unless he/they are carrying rifles of course.

3) Long term reliability and ability to practice: The mouse guns are not made for tens of thousands of rounds. I like to practice often with my EDC guns, and even if .380 ammo was ample and cheap (neither are true which make this point even more valid to me), you can't go put 100's of rounds through an LCP without wearing out its usable life soon. Your G26 will last you hundreds of thousands of rounds.

Those are just 3 off my head. Start carrying that Glock again. Don't get lazy. We all know the long odds of ever needing our protection, but if we've elected to carry in spite of those unlikely odds that we'll need it, shouldn't we also consider the slim odds that the LCP isn't enough gun too? Keep your family and you MORE safe with a good carry gun. Limit the LCP to the extenuating circumstances that a larger gun cannot be carried. (For me those times are formal occasions and ultra casual occasions such as cycling that I can't carry a Glock, but they're few and far between. The majority of the time, one of my Glocks is with me).

Love my LCP. It is a gun that prevents me from leaving home unarmed. I can even put it in the pocket of gym shorts with a tie string and they wont come down, it is so light. I rarely carry it as a primary, but when I do, I am comfortable with its accuracy and I feel it has enough firepower to fend off an attack. I would never consider this an offensive weapon but as a defensive weapon I feel it would do its job. As far as the Crimson Trace grips, I love mine because I can have the gun aimed before it is up to my line of sight and they are dead on. I got mine from Midwest Tactical Supply's Ebay store for $156, free shipping, and lifetime replacement bateries. The guys over there have great customer service and also run the Elsie Pea Forum.

[quote="gigag04"]I would URGE you to find another 4-5 boxes of ammo and run those through it before carrying it. I decided to have 300 consecutive perfect rounds fired with no malfunction to prove up my Kahr P380. Luckily it only took 300 rds... :) That was my standard...just make sure you chose something where you are positive it will work.[/quote

I would have shot more it's almost impossible to find I work lp for walmart so I check the ammo case daily I haven't seen .380 in months

G26TR:

Sure, the LCP is smaller than your Glock 26, but if
you think your Glock is uncomfortable I would recommend
getting a more comfortable rig.

Then carry BOTH of your guns. It's been said that if you need
to carry ONE gun, you should carry a BUG too.

Then if you have to shoot a BG, you can consider the wound
details from the .380 vs. the 9MM.

We'll expect that range report directly. :-)

SIA

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:G26TR:

Sure, the LCP is smaller than your Glock 26, but if
you think your Glock is uncomfortable I would recommend
getting a more comfortable rig.

What I believe I need here is a more comfortable belly - working on that now... Lost @ 70lbs about 2 years back, but gained 40 of that 70 back in last year! My cloths are getting snug and I think that's contributing to this comfort issue! I just don't know how much more comfortable I can get w/G26 in the M-Tac holster rig. Crossbread does have a model out there that I may need to get anyway if adding the CT Laser Guard LG-436. I'm still concerned that I normally wear only 1.25% belts - not 1.5" and those holster clips are normally made for 1.5" or larger I believe. Also, I really do not like the clips showing.

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: Then carry BOTH of your guns. It's been said that if you need
to carry ONE gun, you should carry a BUG too.

I'm still a fan of ONE gun is better than NONE!

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: Then if you have to shoot a BG, you can consider the wound
details from the .380 vs. the 9MM.

The holes on the target are the same size (9MM vs. .380)! Doesn't that count for something?! Understand though - point taken... There was definitely a reason I purchased 2 Glock 9MM's well before picking up the LCP. I do consider myself at a considerable advantage - armed w/LCP+CT - over the many civilians out there who are unarmed. I believe in most fit hits the shan situations, I should be able to defend my family w/LCP and "retreat" (no direct-offense maneuvers) to safety. In process of my retreat, I may even surprise a BG or 2 when Minnie Mouse blows her goodbye kiss!

surprise_i'm_armed wrote: We'll expect that range report directly. :-)

SIA

Let's hope I never visit that range! What city did you say that was in - and what are their hours of operation?!

I went out to Academy Sports to see if any 380 ammo had come in.Thay had a Ruger LCP that just came in for $319.99 so i picked it up.Out the door was $346.39
I went home cleaned it and headed to the range and shot 28 rounds throught it with out a Hic Up. It barks guys, yeow! And long trigger pull?..try Long Long trigger pull.
ON first shot i thinking when is ever going to go bang...wow.I like it fine though and will be great in the Crossbreed Mini Tuck thats on order already.
This will be my summer carry under light clothes, t-Shirt etc, have a Glock 33 for under a jacket or coat.


about two inch groups at 15 yards but ya have to take my word for it .See what left of my target upper right.It was "windy today".

Congrats on the LCP purchase & managing to get to range same day!

texjames wrote:about two inch groups at 15 yards but ya have to take my word for it .

Very nice grouping for 15 yards w/factory sites, first time out, gusty day (imagine not always steady which is a GOOD thing to keep 2" grouping that far out), and with Mouse Gun!

My 2nd visit to the range yesterday (indoor) was pretty good. I am finding myself not liking 50 steady rounds/wk as I do with the Glocks though. 25-30 rounds on LCP sounds about right (at least for me) for weekly sessions - while in training mode. As with G26, that'll be lowered to about 25-30 rounds every other week after the next couple months when in retention mode. I'm finding increased confidence now and am spending less time to take clean shots. Unlike my first visit, I did find the weapon wanting to jump out of my hands more this time. I'm contributing cold weather to this - as it was about 3-4 degrees colder than even outside in indoor range (due to circulation fans), and my car read 41 degrees outside Good learning lesson though w/Minnie Mouse - because this didn't seem to happen with the thicker G26 in same session.

If it was cold today at your location (which I imagine it was), I think you'll be even more pleasantly surprised on your next visit in warmer climate. Sounds like for both of us, the LCP is more of a warm weather companion - and when it's time to put the snow tires on, it's back to the Glock!

I was listening to a podcast of Tom Greshems' "GunTalk" (you can download them free at http://www.guntalk.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) last night. He started one hour saying he had an apology to make. He came back saying he has always said the .380 is underpowered to be a personal defense round..... then he said "no more." He had spent the week at Gun SIght shooting ranch. One evening they were shooting the LCP with Crimson Trace. His words "Dead on accurate." He said they then shot ballistic gel. He compared results of the ~modern~ .380 to the results of a 38 special +p. Between new computerized designs, rubber nose tips, better powders, etc. these are effective rounds. Not as good as a 9mm, but then the 9 isn't as good as a 45, which isn't as good as a .50, which isn't as good as a .....

I have 3 that I carry, depending on the season and where I am going. LCP, Sig 232 (both are a .380) and Taurus 709 (9 mm). I don't feel underpowered with any. Less shots is my main concern, but in a mall shooting situation, the shooter is going to have his pockets full of ammo, mags and guns.... at least typically do. So even a double stack would be at a disadvantage. My opinion is these mouseguns are designed as up-close, personal guns at bad breath range and would be fine for that. To be sure, have something more heavy duty for home personal defense. I have 2 matching Taurus 24/7 9mm outfitted with streamlights at each end of the house with spare loaded 17 round mags around the house in case I am having to run through the house from or after a perp.

wgoforth wrote:I was listening to a podcast of Tom Greshems' "GunTalk" (you can download them free at http://www.guntalk.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) last night. He started one hour saying he had an apology to make. He came back saying he has always said the .380 is underpowered to be a personal defense round..... then he said "no more." He had spent the week at Gun SIght shooting ranch. One evening they were shooting the LCP with Crimson Trace. His words "Dead on accurate." He said they then shot ballistic gel. He compared results of the ~modern~ .380 to the results of a 38 special +p. Between new computerized designs, rubber nose tips, better powders, etc. these are effective rounds. Not as good as a 9mm, but then the 9 isn't as good as a 45, which isn't as good as a .50, which isn't as good as a .....

I have 3 that I carry, depending on the season and where I am going. LCP, Sig 232 (both are a .380) and Taurus 709 (9 mm). I don't feel underpowered with any. Less shots is my main concern, but in a mall shooting situation, the shooter is going to have his pockets full of ammo, mags and guns.... at least typically do. So even a double stack would be at a disadvantage. My opinion is these mouseguns are designed as up-close, personal guns at bad breath range and would be fine for that. To be sure, have something more heavy duty for home personal defense. I have 2 matching Taurus 24/7 9mm outfitted with streamlights at each end of the house with spare loaded 17 round mags around the house in case I am having to run through the house from or after a perp.

Good post. The lack of ammo is a big deal to me. The 6+1 of the mouse gun is a bad deal. And in a 'mall shooting' or "Luby's" type scenario, yes, the BG will likely have a lot of ammo, but that's not the point. I would expect to get the drop on the bad guy and fill him full of bullets ASAP. I want to be able to unload 11 or 15 rounds into him rather than 7 weaker rounds. Or if there is 2 guys... etc. You will not be necessarily outgunned because of your caliber, but outgunned because with any handgun, you need to fill them full of holes in as few seconds as possible, and limiting yourself to 7 is a lot worse than 11, 13, or 15+ rounds.

G192627 wrote:

wgoforth wrote:I was listening to a podcast of Tom Greshems' "GunTalk" (you can download them free at http://www.guntalk.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) last night. He started one hour saying he had an apology to make. He came back saying he has always said the .380 is underpowered to be a personal defense round..... then he said "no more." He had spent the week at Gun SIght shooting ranch. One evening they were shooting the LCP with Crimson Trace. His words "Dead on accurate." He said they then shot ballistic gel. He compared results of the ~modern~ .380 to the results of a 38 special +p. Between new computerized designs, rubber nose tips, better powders, etc. these are effective rounds. Not as good as a 9mm, but then the 9 isn't as good as a 45, which isn't as good as a .50, which isn't as good as a .....

I have 3 that I carry, depending on the season and where I am going. LCP, Sig 232 (both are a .380) and Taurus 709 (9 mm). I don't feel underpowered with any. Less shots is my main concern, but in a mall shooting situation, the shooter is going to have his pockets full of ammo, mags and guns.... at least typically do. So even a double stack would be at a disadvantage. My opinion is these mouseguns are designed as up-close, personal guns at bad breath range and would be fine for that. To be sure, have something more heavy duty for home personal defense. I have 2 matching Taurus 24/7 9mm outfitted with streamlights at each end of the house with spare loaded 17 round mags around the house in case I am having to run through the house from or after a perp.

Good post. The lack of ammo is a big deal to me. The 6+1 of the mouse gun is a bad deal. And in a 'mall shooting' or "Luby's" type scenario, yes, the BG will likely have a lot of ammo, but that's not the point. I would expect to get the drop on the bad guy and fill him full of bullets ASAP. I want to be able to unload 11 or 15 rounds into him rather than 7 weaker rounds. Or if there is 2 guys... etc. You will not be necessarily outgunned because of your caliber, but outgunned because with any handgun, you need to fill them full of holes in as few seconds as possible, and limiting yourself to 7 is a lot worse than 11, 13, or 15+ rounds.

What are you carrying ? 11-15 would be nice but how do you carry a gun that big under a T-Shirt or short sleeve shirt?
I am talking carry gun only on my LCP...for home a have a 10.5 inch AR15 SBR....30 rounds 5.56

texjames wrote: What are you carrying ? 11-15 would be nice but how do you carry a gun that big under a T-Shirt or short sleeve shirt?
I am talking carry gun only on my LCP...for home a have a 10.5 inch AR15 SBR....30 rounds 5.56

Nice AR! Wish we could conceal those. :)

I carry a Glock 19 and 33 regularly. The 19 holds 15+1 (9mm) and the G33 can take 13+1 of .357 SIG. With a good holster and belt, it's easily concealed under any t-shirt, golf shirt, polo shirt, and I can even tuck in a button-down shirt over my MTAC holster. I wear shorts, belt, and MTAC, and buh-bye G33.
And if I'm every unfortunate enough to have to use it, at least I know that I've got the best and most possible carry-able ammo with me.

It's all about the holster/belt. It makes a 100x difference.

G192627 wrote: Good post. The lack of ammo is a big deal to me. The 6+1 of the mouse gun is a bad deal. And in a 'mall shooting' or "Luby's" type scenario, yes, the BG will likely have a lot of ammo, but that's not the point. I would expect to get the drop on the bad guy and fill him full of bullets ASAP. I want to be able to unload 11 or 15 rounds into him rather than 7 weaker rounds. Or if there is 2 guys... etc. You will not be necessarily outgunned because of your caliber, but outgunned because with any handgun, you need to fill them full of holes in as few seconds as possible, and limiting yourself to 7 is a lot worse than 11, 13, or 15+ rounds.

I don't dispute any that you say, but it's all a tradeoff. Even Suzzanna Hupp (from the Luby's killing) said she wished she had her revolver with her and she could have taken him out. How many rounds to that? I would love 11-15...would love 1,000 even more! Belt fed would be great! Just for me is not practical. I did have the hidden in plain sight belt pack that would hold even my 24/7 17 round. BUT, would have to unzip and remove it... I opted for a external belt holster to be able to draw faster. For me, fast deployment outweighed more ammo but slower as I thought about parking lot assaults that would require only one hand quickly to deploy. I can be convinced otherwise should I find a better system. Like the Prez, I'm all ears!

Thinking a 6-7 round and carrying extra magazine might be a good compromise.

texjames:

It's not really hard to conceal a gun with substantially
more rounds than an LCP.

I always carry my PT-111 either in my right front pocket,
or in my model 82 Bianchi Carry-lock OWB on my right,
and 2 fully charged 10 round mags on my left side.
I've been using a black ballistic nylon double magholder
with a strong steel clip. But I also have 2 Kydex single mag
holders that I could use.

That way I always have 31 rounds on me since the gun
is a 10 +1.

The only thing you need is a moderately roomy T-shirt,
or a Hawaiian type shirt, or any square-bottomed shirt
that looks OK when it's not tucked in.

When I first carried my gun it seemed large, but now that
I'm used to carrying, I want an even bigger gun, or a BUG
that would ride on my left.

SIA