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seamusTX wrote:It's quite instructive how long that took.

- Jim

Not necessarily.

Most untrained folks will likely shoot once then wait to see what effect it has, expecting the assailant to go down.

When he didn't, and she realized more was needed she didn't take quite so long with successive shots, yet seemed to be taking the time to carefully aim each one.

She partly got lucky and partly stuck with it until the job was done.

There was no mention of handgun caliber, so that may have been somewhat of a factor.

Ever since the Feb 2005 Tyler Texas incident in which a TX CHL holder, Mark Wilson, lost his life trying to stop a guy with a MAK 10 and body armor in front of the courthouse I've been drilling my students heavily in 2 to COM and then go for the "pumpkin".

More modern instructors like "SouthNarc" are now teaching "shoot 'em into the ground" tactics to get away from the "one shot stop" expectations.

The video is very interesting.

Bif

Syntax360 wrote:So why didn't the would-be robber shoot back? Seems to me, if I am robbing someone at gunpoint and they shoot me, I would at least want to take them with me? Seems kinda odd that he just stood there and waited to die

Longtooth nailed it. He either didn't believe he had been shot, or he may not have felt the first hit and thought she missed. There's no mention of caliber but she may have had something like a Kel-Tec .32 or .380.

Bif

"shootem into the ground." I like it. Especially for the "defenseless ladies". GOOD JOB.

Bif wrote:

Syntax360 wrote:So why didn't the would-be robber shoot back? Seems to me, if I am robbing someone at gunpoint and they shoot me, I would at least want to take them with me? Seems kinda odd that he just stood there and waited to die

Longtooth nailed it. He either didn't believe he had been shot, or he may not have felt the first hit and thought she missed. There's no mention of caliber but she may have had something like a Kel-Tec .32 or .380.

Bif

Good point, I thought he either had a "toy" gun or was not prepared to use the gun he had and was shocked. It did seem like it took forever to unfold though!

You're probably right Longtooth. It just struck me odd that the guy pulled a gun, waited for the clerk to draw a gun, waited to get shot, and then just stood there. I would have imagined fight or flight would have kicked in and the guy would have been spraying the counter or at least turning in the general direction of the door. Instead, he just stood there playing the role of the good range silhouette and waited for the clerk to practice a few COM shots. Puzzling?

Non of the BGs ever got sited for the Deans list. Creative thinking in the time of stress is usually not a strong point for them. THe only thing they have trained on is "this is a stick up, gimme your money." after that, like every one else, they are reduced to their daily level of continual training, which is nothing but run away w/ what they have taken. Be it money, drugs, or lead . Good job young lady.

Syntax360 wrote:It just struck me odd that the guy pulled a gun, waited for the clerk to draw a gun, waited to get shot, and then just stood there.

I think there's a strong possibility the robber's gun was non-functional. You can't see much detail in that video. It could have been broken, a replica, or jammed.

I also agree that the intended victim went off the script and the robber didn't know what to do.

- Jim

Looking at how it went down, the BG never really had a clear shot. The clerk moved behind cover quickly. There was always stuff in his way... plus for a while he was climbing on his hands and knees on top of the counter... and couldn't get a shot off.

At first I was thinking that the counter/stuff on the counter wouldn't be much cover, but as it is a liquor store, the booze does offer some protection

I'm sure that lady wasn't even thoroughly trained on how to use that gun. It just shows having a gun makes a big difference, even if you don't go to the range and practice.

Paladin wrote:Personally, I give the Clerk an A+

She found herself suddenly looking down the barrel of a BG's gun, took cover, grabbed her gun, got several good hits, and made a quick retreat when the BG was still moving around.

Yup! Did pretty good actually.

The so called "expert" quipped: "she somehow managed to survive".

Looked like she was in total control to me.

Boma wrote:I'm sure that lady wasn't even thoroughly trained on how to use that gun. It just shows having a gun makes a big difference, even if you don't go to the range and practice.

If she didn't have any training, she was pretty smart and had good instincts. Cause she did a good job. I'd guess she had some kind of training, but I could be wrong.

But you're right... just having a gun can make a huge difference.

Bif wrote:
More modern instructors like "SouthNarc" are now teaching "shoot 'em into the ground" tactics to get away from the "one shot stop" expectations.

I dunno about modern but this is what my Pop taught me way back in the 60's. He said the only reason to stop shooting was to reload and that I could always check to see if the BG was moving around while I was doing so...

Paladin wrote:Looking at how it went down, the BG never really had a clear shot. The clerk moved behind cover quickly. There was always stuff in his way... plus for a while he was climbing on his hands and knees on top of the counter... and couldn't get a shot off.

At first I was thinking that the counter/stuff on the counter wouldn't be much cover, but as it is a liquor store, the booze does offer some protection

That shows another phenomenon. Untrained people will often not shoot thru objects that are only cover, trying instead to shoot around the object or only shooting at the visible portion of the target.

His reaction when meet with immediate and severe resistance to his attempted use of force is pretty typical too. These criminals expect people to be scared and comply. One thing I love about Krav Maga is the immediate and devestating response to being assaulted.

Great thread.