One in The Pipe or Rack and Then Roll ?

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:27 am

I'll am more than likely these guys newest recruit to carry the 1911. After a week it seems totally normal. I did carry it a couple days with the chamber empty. After 2 trips to the range it has become natural to work the safety and shoot with my thumb on top of the safety.

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:16 am

Good learning & maturing.

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:26 am

longtooth wrote:Good learning & maturing.

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:26 am

How do you train? Do you practice drawing from a holster, racking the slide and then engaging the target?

If not, you will be standing there pulling a trigger that doesn't do anything should you find yourself needing that firearm in a hurry.

nitrogen wrote:Also, what happens if you're injured before you have a chance to grab your weapon? Can you rack the slide if only one arm works? How would you do that? Grip the weapon with your teeth?

lol Actually I DO practice this. The heel of your shoe vs the rear sights works well.

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:34 am

nitrogen wrote:Also, what happens if you're injured before you have a chance to grab your weapon? Can you rack the slide if only one arm works? How would you do that? Grip the weapon with your teeth?

I shoot IDPA with a one armed man, it's amazing to watch him do reloads on the clock not to mention his techniques for loading to start with.

Of course one would have to practice doing what he does as often as he does in order to be as proficient as he is at it.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:04 pm

propellerhead wrote:I would rather carry with and empty chamber than not carry at all. If you're not ready to carry with n+1 configuration, then don't. Don't feel pressured to carry to full capacity just because everyone else does.

+1

Once you're comfortable carrying a gun and have first hand experience safely handling it at all times you'll be more comfortable carrying a loaded chamber.

Alric · Post by **Alric** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:27 pm

One thing that initially helped me was thinking about the dynamics of the particular gun I'm carrying. If I have the safety engaged, then afaik, there is a firing pin block in the way. The gun simply will not fire.

Although now I'm beginning to consider safety off on a DA/SA. The safety on my Baby Eagle is on the slide, and I have to push it up to disengage it. Its a rather akward motion, in my opinion.

jbirds1210 · Post by **jbirds1210** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:32 pm

jimlongley wrote: I shoot IDPA with a one armed man, it's amazing to watch him do reloads on the clock not to mention his techniques for loading to start with.

I guess you do the best with what you are given....that is really amazing. I bet the fellow is not slow! This should be an inspiration to those of us who are still slow with both hands!
Jason

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:37 pm

Alric wrote:One thing that initially helped me was thinking about the dynamics of the particular gun I'm carrying. If I have the safety engaged, then afaik, there is a firing pin block in the way. The gun simply will not fire.

Although now I'm beginning to consider safety off on a DA/SA. The safety on my Baby Eagle is on the slide, and I have to push it up to disengage it. Its a rather akward motion, in my opinion.

I carried my Beagle for a couple months, I felt very safe with it. I never used the safety becasue of the DA first pull

AV8R · Post by **AV8R** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:07 pm

DaveT wrote:bigolbigun,

Having been in a shooting situation before, I can say this from personal experience: when the stuff hits the fan, it's going to happen very, very fast. So fast that you might only have time to get one round off. For your personal safety, that one round better be the one you have in the chamber, ready to go. My shooting situation (in law enforcement) lasted maybe five seconds... it was an ambush, he shot at me and missed, I returned fire and did not miss. His family buried him, I went home to mine.

If you don't feel comfortable with your pistol in the cocked and locked carry mode, I'd suggest you find a good revolver to carry for a while, at least until you are fully comfortable with what a carry weapon will and will not do.

With a SA carry weapon, not only do you have to be totally comfortable with the cocked and locked mode, but you must also be totally familiar with your weapon's safety system.... especially the external thumb safety, if your weapon has one. When the stuff hits the fan, you don't have time to be remembering to flip the safety to the off position..... it has to be an automatic reaction based on training, training and more training.

You asked for advice and opinions, you'll receive a lot since you asked. Above all else, the bottom line is for you to get familiar and totally comfortable with whatever weapon you choose to carry..... your life may very well depend on it. Mine did, and I'm still here.

Total agreement from another who is "still here". I think the "empty chamber" philosophy in this day and age need only apply to older revolvers with hammer-attached firing pins. Modern floating-pin designs found in semis and revolvers are very safe with a chambered round.

Sometimes one can see trouble coming a long time in advance, sometimes not. When you don't see it coming, you'll be glad that you have a simple, reliable firearm that's ready to go to work.

Commander · Post by **Commander** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:54 pm

Bigolbigun;

The Marshal had some good advice and he carrys the same pistol as you. I know the concern you have as I went through it as well when I first started carrying. As you become more comfortable with carrying and your pistol, you will come to feel more at ease (if that's a good word) about carrying with one in the chamber.

JLaw · Post by **JLaw** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:20 pm

Alric wrote: Although now I'm beginning to consider safety off on a DA/SA. The safety on my Baby Eagle is on the slide, and I have to push it up to disengage it. Its a rather akward motion, in my opinion.

That safety configuration is one that I'm actually more familiar with than the 1911 platform safety, so it's not very strange to me at all. All of my Smith DA/SA auto's have the style of safety you describe, and it's the only one I've ever really manipulated to any extent. But you are perfectly safe NOT using the safety on a DA/SA auto (so long as the weapon is decocked), because of the first DA shot. There's no safety on a revolver, and it's a DA. The length and weight of the first DA pull is your safety. Of course in my humble opinion, the only true safety is to keep your finger off the trigger until on target.

JLaw

Liberty · Post by **Liberty** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:00 pm

Alric wrote:One thing that initially helped me was thinking about the dynamics of the particular gun I'm carrying. If I have the safety engaged, then afaik, there is a firing pin block in the way. The gun simply will not fire.

Although now I'm beginning to consider safety off on a DA/SA. The safety on my Baby Eagle is on the slide, and I have to push it up to disengage it. Its a rather akward motion, in my opinion.

My Ruger is a DA/SA with a safety that moves up. I have practiced disenganging it as a pull the gun to my line of sight. Its become second nature to push it up as I raise it. At the range it has become second nature to sweep my thumb up even though the safety usually isn't engaged. On this particular I believe I will continue keeping the safety on, although I would feel safe enough with the DA if my gun didn't have the safety.

bigolbigun · Post by **bigolbigun** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:36 pm

Thanks to all of you who took time to respond to my post. The input recieved from the people on this site is incredible. The knowledge you share with a "rookie" like myself is priceless. All of your personal expierences and technical advice is much appreciated to someone like me who is new to carrying. I can't thank all of you enough. Oh and by the way one is the pipe is the way I'm going to carry. Thanks again

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:20 pm

Good job bigun. I do not remember who said it but one of you young guys taught this old dog something new. There are a lot of us that have been shootin so long that a gun on the rack, in the corner, or on the belt is just part of life. My grandkids don't pay it any attention. You that are young & new to carry are not that comfortable yet.
Whoever said, carry it cocked & locked w/ an empty chamber for a few days & see how many times it just goes off had a good idea. I will use that in the future as a teaching tool. Thank you younguns & bigun.