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Teamless wrote:Unless the laws changed recently to allow open carry, when I lived there, I never saw ANYONE open carry.
This is from 1984 through about 1995.
So if it has been allowed, I dont know how prevalent it is (or maybe was?)

The law never changed, it was just never illegal to do so(remember laws are written to tell you what you cannot do, not what you can do). Since people became interested in CC and actually started reading Ohio ORC, they started OC'ing. There is no law there regarding open carry or printing like in some other states. Even if you forget to cover your sidearm you have still broken no laws.

Where a OLTCACH (Ohio License To Carry A Concealed Handgun) comes into play is that when you get on a motorcycle or inside a motor vehicle you are concealed carrying (per Ohio ORC). So if you wish to use transportation then you must obtain a CC license to do so legally. (Or you can disarm and lock box it and re-arm each time you enter/exit your vehicle, which can be an issue but that's for another time.)

With all due respect, I know 1995 doesn't seem that long ago, but it's been 15 years.

In Ohio this past year alone there were over 50,000 new licenses issued, plus 16,000 renewals which puts Ohio at around 250,000 licenses active. With the unemployment rate in the state being around 20% and a large majority of the law enforcement officers being laid off, the people are worried. When some of the larger cities cut 35-50% of their policing force people start worrying about protecting their families, which would explain the record number of licenses issued in 2009. Those that are DQ'd from getting an OLTCACH (ex. misdemeanor drug conviction) can still Openly Carry however.

Thanks for the information, I was not aware (and yes, I know its been 15 years - but dont remind me that I am getting that OLD )

Unloaded open carry - - - isn't that akin to being a clothed nudist???????? What's the point?

Teamless wrote:Thanks for the information, I was not aware (and yes, I know its been 15 years - but dont remind me that I am getting that OLD )

Haha, I'm glad you took no offense to that statement, I catch myself talking about things like that, and then I never realize how longs it's been until I see the numbers and do the math.

One county in Ohio up in the north has an average of one LEO per 320 some odd square miles because of the cutbacks.

Ohio had an approx population of 11.5mil as of 2009. As long as I can still do math that's roughly 1 in 45 people are a licensed CC'er in Ohio, those are pretty good numbers. Wayne County alone doubled it's number of licenses in 2009.

MoJo wrote:Unloaded open carry - - - isn't that akin to being a clothed nudist???????? What's the point?

I allready explained the point above. If WE Texans want OC then we have to start somewhere.

It doesn't seem to be working too well in California.

We don't seem to have as many fringe politicos as they do, but we do have some (too many).

As my dear old Daddy used to say;

"Most useless things to a Texan are a dull knife, an unloaded gun and decaf coffee."

I think we have a different political climate than CA. Even CA only passed that rediculous ban through their house by 115 to 108. Pretty slim victory. I just think that there's a lot of griping about OC and no one is doing anything about it. I just had an idea but seeing as it's illegal anyways it's a moot point

I would like to see the laws for failure to conceal made very clear so it is truly you meant to show it. A shirt riding up etc should not be an issue like it was for handog. Intentional failure to conceal is like you pulled it out or wore a t-shirt tucked in behind your weapon.

suthdj wrote:I would like to see the laws for failure to conceal made very clear so it is truly you meant to show it. A shirt riding up etc should not be an issue like it was for handog. Intentional failure to conceal is like you pulled it out or wore a t-shirt tucked in behind your weapon.

Doesn't intentional already mean you meant to do it? That's my understanding of the definition. A shirt riding up already shouldn't be a problem, unless you get an uninformed officer, or one who is just wanting to give you a hard time.

A police officer can observe behavior but he can't read minds and know your intent, so don't be surprised if he lets a judge or jury make the decision regarding mental state and culpability.

Martini wrote:A police officer can observe behavior but he can't read minds and know your intent, so don't be surprised if he lets a judge or jury make the decision regarding mental state and culpability.

Wouldn't the officer need reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime to legally stop you? Or am I misunderstanding?

.30calSolution wrote:

Martini wrote:A police officer can observe behavior but he can't read minds and know your intent, so don't be surprised if he lets a judge or jury make the decision regarding mental state and culpability.

Wouldn't the officer need reasonable suspicion that you have or are about to commit a crime to legally stop you? Or am I misunderstanding?

No different than the police arresting someone who walks naked through a suburban mall, and letting the courts decide intent.

TxPC 21.08

Martini wrote:A police officer can observe behavior but he can't read minds and know your intent, so don't be surprised if he lets a judge or jury make the decision regarding mental state and culpability.

That is it in a nutshell! Whether the issue is CW exposure, one beer on your breath, the speed limit or the perceived tone of your verbal response to his question or whatever, the arresting LEO makes the call and you make the appeal.

Oldgringo wrote:

Martini wrote:A police officer can observe behavior but he can't read minds and know your intent, so don't be surprised if he lets a judge or jury make the decision regarding mental state and culpability.

That is it in a nutshell! Whether the issue is CW exposure, one beer on your breath, the speed limit or the perceived tone of your verbal response to his question or whatever, the arresting LEO makes the call and you make the appeal.

That would not be a problem if the PD/CIty picked up the tab for all legal fee's and missed work etc.... unless you are found guilty. I think this would help stop alot of the police using that as an excuse to harass people.