TexasCHLforum.com

HighVelocity wrote:There is nothing in the mall that can't be purchased elsewhere. Malls are the devil!

I disagree.. what if I get a craving for Sbarro's pizza? I know of no location outside of a mall where I can get a slice of greasy Sbarro's pizza. :D :?

Thanks much for the clarification, Chas! :D

A lot of this 30.06 sign stuff can also be found on Packing.org. I have joined in on the other discussions as well at times.

Some have maintained that even if the sign is not exactly 30.06 compliant, the owner's intent to prohibit is obvious, so concealed carry is prohibited.

The same logic would apply if an owner only 30.06 posted one of any number of entrances. You would be prohibited from carrying.

This makes no sense. The hospital where my wife works posted every entrance, signs are exactly according to statute. I honor the posting. I enter a mall through an unposted entrance, I pack, I keep my mouth shut. If I am made, I didn't know about the other entrances. I keep my mouth shut.

Certainly the law is not exact, and there will always be exceptions and what-ifs. From my experience, if an owner really wants to properly post, it will happen. If he doesn't do his homework and half-way posts or sticks up vague references and gun-busters, I will pack, thank you.

I think way too much thought is given to this issue. It reminds me a lot of the newbies that ask business's if it is okay to bring in their guns. The class covers the necessary points. Pack, be safe!

I think way too much

anygunanywhere wrote:The hospital where my wife works posted every entrance, signs are exactly according to statute.

Does she work for a Christus hospital?

That's the only group I've seen ban concelaed carry.

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:The hospital where my wife works posted every entrance, signs are exactly according to statute.

Does she work for a Christus hospital?

That's the only group I've seen ban concelaed carry.

Kevin

Yep. Christus St. John in Nassau Bay, Texas. Their attorneys did their homework. The signs are exact, word for word, one inch block letters. They are at each public entrance.

They have a serious problem with the riff raff in their hospitals. The Webster, TX Police are in there all the time. It is a shame the employees can not protect themselves, because the "security" (and the term is used loosely) can not and will not. I guarantee that there are illegal weapons carried by BG's in their hospitals. Woe be unto the hospital if my wife is harmed. They will rue the day. No threat, a promise.

Suckhow wrote:

HighVelocity wrote:There is nothing in the mall that can't be purchased elsewhere. Malls are the devil!

I disagree.. what if I get a craving for Sbarro's pizza? I know of no location outside of a mall where I can get a slice of greasy Sbarro's pizza. :D :?

Sbarro's pizza is the devil!

anygunanywhere wrote:Some have maintained that even if the sign is not exactly 30.06 compliant, the owner's intent to prohibit is obvious, so concealed carry is prohibited.

Right around September 1, 2003, as the clarification of the law went into effect, the Plano Independent School District posted all of the entrances to its parking lots with non-compliant 36.06 signs.

I called local police, DPS, and eventually the Attorney General's office, to find out who was in charge of enforcement of the sign regulation. I wound up on the phone with a very snotty young lady who claimed to be a former prosecutor and who very forcefully told me that in all cases they considered just the attempt to post a 30.06 sign to be an indication of intention by the poster and that they would prosecute any violators. She suggested that if I didn't like it I could go ahead and be a test case.

When I pointed out that, by her logic, I could reasonably claim a good faith effort to obey the speed limit if I only went 49 in a 40 zone, she got real huffy and hung up on me.

I understand that there is some debate over whether "independent" school districts are government entities and thus subject to the restrictions in posting.

My call also was about a Community Credit Union which has undersize and non-contrasting signs posted, but the answer remained the same.

jimlongley, that has to be the same young Lady who taught our instructor class two years ago, she said in that class that the wording in 30.06 didn't have to be exact or word for word if the language and intent were there. She is the only person I have ever heard with that interpretation of 30.06, everyone else has said that it must be exact. She had different views on several issues than we had been taught in past years. Talking to a group of instructors after the class, most agreed that she was the only anti-gun and anti-CHL person that we had come in contact with in our classes in Austin. My personal opinion is that she dosen't see CHL's as the good guy's and is looking for the oportunity to prosecute.

jimlongley wrote:I wound up on the phone with a very snotty young lady who claimed to be a former prosecutor and who very forcefully told me that in all cases they considered just the attempt to post a 30.06 sign to be an indication of intention by the poster and that they would prosecute any violators. She suggested that if I didn't like it I could go ahead and be a test case.

When I pointed out that, by her logic, I could reasonably claim a good faith effort to obey the speed limit if I only went 49 in a 40 zone, she got real huffy and hung up on me.

My call also was about a Community Credit Union which has undersize and non-contrasting signs posted, but the answer remained the same.

I hate running into snooty ladies...

I also called once about the posted sign downtown at the Houston Police Departments' HQ...I used to work across the street and would walk by there everyday at lunchtime...The sign was ok (compliant) per the wording, but the sign was done with "white" 1 inch or better, lettering on a CLEAR GLASS panel...It is very difficult to discern unless you come right up and lean down to look at it...

By that time, the officers pulling the P.R. and metal detector duty notice you looking at it and if you want to come in to do business, you get the 'nth degree of attention above all the other folks coming in at that time...

Glad I don't have to do anything there...

Later,
Steve

On the whole "contrasting color" thing, I think that is the only part of 30.06 that is left open to interpretation. I would walk past a sign that had the wrong wording without a second thought....and I wouldn't hesitate to walk by a properly worded sign that was too small (I've seen them printed on 8-1/2 x 11" paper at a local car dealership). If it's the right size and has the right wording, but I don't consider the colors to be contrasting, I'm not taking my chances. "Contrasting colors" aren't defined by law so it's too much of a gray area for me to just walk by it.

Take Six Flags for instance. They have a cast bronze sign. The background is dark bronze and the raised lettering is polished. Technically speaking, that probably is not considered contrasting colors, but it's still plenty easy to read and I won't be going in Six Flags carrying a gun because of it.

anygunanywhere wrote:

KBCraig wrote: Does she work for a Christus hospital?

That's the only group I've seen ban concelaed carry.

Yep. Christus St. John in Nassau Bay, Texas. Their attorneys did their homework. The signs are exact, word for word, one inch block letters. They are at each public entrance.

They have a serious problem with the riff raff in their hospitals. The Webster, TX Police are in there all the time. It is a shame the employees can not protect themselves, because the "security" (and the term is used loosely) can not and will not. I guarantee that there are illegal weapons carried by BG's in their hospitals. Woe be unto the hospital if my wife is harmed. They will rue the day. No threat, a promise.

I figured it was Christus. We have Christus St. Michael in Texarkana. It's a shame that it's the better of our two hospitals.

I haven't checked the employee entrance; I used to use that one exclusively, since it was always open and gave easy access to the elevators. I need to go back to check.

I'm a federal CO, and whenever we have an inmate in the hospital, it's at St. Michael. They're so paranoid about guns that whenever we move from the room for a test, we have to call hospital security to escort us. It's made more amusing by the fact that most of them are BOP retirees.

Kevin

ElGato wrote:jimlongley, that has to be the same young Lady who taught our instructor class two years ago, she said in that class that the wording in 30.06 didn't have to be exact or word for word if the language and intent were there. She is the only person I have ever heard with that interpretation of 30.06, everyone else has said that it must be exact. She had different views on several issues than we had been taught in past years. Talking to a group of instructors after the class, most agreed that she was the only anti-gun and anti-CHL person that we had come in contact with in our classes in Austin. My personal opinion is that she dosen't see CHL's as the good guy's and is looking for the oportunity to prosecute.

Sounds like the same one. Heck, I was just asking who I would file a complaint about non-compliant signs with, I didn't say I was going to ignore them or that I wanted them taken down, I just wanted them brought into compliance. She was aggressive about it from the get-go and I wish I had gotten her name.

stevie_d_64 wrote:
I also called once about the posted sign downtown at the Houston Police Departments' HQ...I used to work across the street and would walk by there everyday at lunchtime...The sign was ok (compliant) per the wording, but the sign was done with "white" 1 inch or better, lettering on a CLEAR GLASS panel...It is very difficult to discern unless you come right up and lean down to look at it...

By that time, the officers pulling the P.R. and metal detector duty notice you looking at it and if you want to come in to do business, you get the 'nth degree of attention above all the other folks coming in at that time...

Glad I don't have to do anything there...

Later,
Steve

Braden wrote:On the whole "contrasting color" thing, I think that is the only part of 30.06 that is left open to interpretation. I would walk past a sign that had the wrong wording without a second thought....and I wouldn't hesitate to walk by a properly worded sign that was too small (I've seen them printed on 8-1/2 x 11" paper at a local car dealership). If it's the right size and has the right wording, but I don't consider the colors to be contrasting, I'm not taking my chances. "Contrasting colors" aren't defined by law so it's too much of a gray area for me to just walk by it.

In the case of Community Credit Union I think a good case arguing that the letters were not contrasting could be made. The sidewalk in front of the branch in question is bright white concrete, and the letters are white and on the inside of the glass down low. The doors face west, so the net effect, unless you are there in the morning when the entrance is in shadow, is that the anti-chl sign is pretty much obscured by glare, you could even say the sign is virtually invisible in bright sunshine.

The letters in CCU's case, on all of their signs, at least in every branch I have visited, are also undersized. Should have seen them watching me when I got out my dial caliper and measured them.

jimlongley wrote:Should have seen them watching me when I got out my dial caliper and measured them.

Braden wrote:

jimlongley wrote:Should have seen them watching me when I got out my dial caliper and measured them.

I'm inspired...

The JSC Federal Credit Union, the Dixie Farm Road branch had a remodeling job done last year...I have had an account there since I was about 10 years old...My Dad set it up, and I have hung onto it for posterity and respect...

I told my Dad about the 30.06 sign (posted in very nearly compliant methodology), and since he is a CHL'er as well...He told me to consider closing the account, and letting them know the reason for it...

I believe their Federal affiliation is in name only, and not subject to fall under the U.S. Code for facilities like that...

I am, of course still contemplating closing the account...I do not do very much there, as the funds I put in there kinda sit, and are only used for special occasions...

Echhh, I gotta git to werk...hehehe