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These discussions have helped me step back and look at the big picture. I don't have superman syndrome and I don't have a batman license, so my responsibility is to keep me and my family safe. I will be a good witness if it doesn't endanger me, but otherwise stay away from the men in tights and capes.

NOS " .........but if it were any of my family in a sticky situation like that, I would like to think that someone would help them."

Exactly.

As a woman, I hope manhood is never completely lost by our male citizens. If I or any other woman was being raped and a man with a gun just walked on by and let it continue, I feel strongly he has just become an accomplice to the crime and just as much a criminal. A coward to boot. We all thumb our noses at 911 as our primary saviors and then expect it to save a poor woman or cop being killed just because it is not us? I am heartened not everyone feels this way. I am sorry if this offends anyone. I do respect your right to believe there is never a moment you should intervene until it is you being killed, but that is also how millions of jews died. The mindset is one I don't share. There is a time and place for superman capes. Just not every time and not every place and not when you aren't sure just who is the bad guy.

boba wrote:In places like that, DON'T GET INVOLVED.

• Grave robbers? Don't get involved.
• Convenience store robbers? Don't get involved.
• A stranger possibly getting raped? Don't get involved.
• A police officer getting beat down by suspects? Don't get involved.

Keep your head down. Keep moving. Don't get involved.

Chumps don't want no help, chumps don't get no help.

This kind of mentality contributes to the the horrific crimes that are being committed each and every day... It's not about "chumps not wanting help," it's about doing what's right. Furthermore, HOW IS SOMEONE BEING RAPED CONSIDERED A CHUMP????????????????

To the OP... Man, what a way to lose your RTKBA... Also, I agree that the guy has an unfortunate name...

Please keep focused on the topic and not on members! this thread is on the line as far as a personal attack!

psijac wrote:What an unfortunate name to grow up with especially for a man. His parents should be in prison for child cruelty.

Also kids these days would never rob a grave. Too much effort for too little reward.

I can't say I'd walk away from a rape or a cop getting beat up. I'm not a profiler but it seems to me rapist are cowards that will run away if the are in risk of getting caught in the act.

While I agree that I'd call the cops and not get personally involved in this other than as a witness, it is not true that kids these days would never rob a grave." Teens are the age group most likely to get involved in the occult and cult crimes which very often DOES involve grave robbing and the using of something from the body in a ritual/spell etc. I lecture on Satanism and the Occult and have written articles in periodicals on the subject. It can and does happen with frequency.
BTW, I certainly do NOT believe their "spells" do anything, but the point is THEY believe they do.
Wayne

TexasGal wrote:As a woman, I hope manhood is never completely lost by our male citizens.

What some call manhood, others call Superman Syndrome.

The simple fact is we live in a society where the government benefits by making people rely on the government. Self defense and independence are discouraged. They arrest a woman for defending her home against a mentally unstable stalker, and a man for defending his family from gang members. They shoot a military veteran for legally carrying a concealed weapon. When a man shoots two burglars with prior criminal convictions (and who are also illegal aliens) they hold prosecution over his head for 6+ months, and allow the thieves' accomplices to harass and threaten the 61 year old AT&T retiree.

chefkristian wrote:This kind of mentality contributes to the the horrific crimes that are being committed each and every day...

It's a predictable response to a society where law abiding citizens have to jump through hoops and pay the equivalent of a poll tax to exercise a fundamental right. It's a predictable response to a society where a good person who shoots a career criminal in the act is more likely to be put through the wringer by the injustice system, instead of getting a civic award. Cure the disease (bad public policy) and the symptoms will clear up.

chefkristian wrote:It's not about "chumps not wanting help,"

I refer you to the comedic genius of David Zucker, Jim Abrahams, and Jerry Zucker, as delivered by Barbara Billingsley.

boba wrote: I refer you to the comedic genius of David Zucker, Jim Abrahams, and Jerry Zucker, as delivered by Barbara Billingsley.

Excuse me sir, I speak jive.

boba wrote:In places like that, DON'T GET INVOLVED.

• Grave robbers? Don't get involved.

How did Stacey Swallows know that the teens were grave robbers? Is it illegal to loiter in a graveyard? Probably not!

[*]Convenience store robbers? Don't get involved.

Lots of kids play with airsoft guns and do stupid stuff. How do you know that it's not a teen prank? Are you sure it's a robbery? Unless I'm within spitting distance and can clearly see that the perp has a real gun or the gun already went "bang", then I'm not getting involved. How confident are you of your shooting ability under duress? Will you accidentally hit bystanders? In this case, I would attempt to save the life of the clerk, but only if I am within spitting distance and absolutely sure that it is really a robbery.

[*]A stranger possibly getting raped? Don't get involved.

How do you know that it's really rape? Some women "cry rape" just to get an innocent man in trouble. Had this happen to a buddy of mine. He had stood up a girl that he had a date with. She was mad at him and cried rape when she thought that there were no witnesses. Luckily I was crouching to tie my shoelaces and she did not see me, but I did witness that my friend did no such thing. If I was there at the incident from beginning to end, then I would assist the person getting raped. But, if I jumped into the situation in the middle, how do I really know that it's rape?

[*]A police officer getting beat down by suspects? Don't get involved.[/list]

How do you know if the police officer is getting beat down by an OFF-DUTY cop? It happens. Again, I would only assist if I was there to witness the event unfold from beginning to end.

Keep your head down. Keep moving. Don't get involved.

Chumps don't want no help, chumps don't get no help.

Of course I would help, because if nobody help each other, then that's how the Holocaust happened. That's also how "Kitty Genovese" happened. However, I do want to caution y'all that if you shoot someone and that person dies, death is irreversible. Therefore, you should be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN before you pull that trigger.

drjoker wrote:

boba wrote:In places like that, DON'T GET INVOLVED.

• Grave robbers? Don't get involved.

How did Stacey Swallows know that the teens were grave robbers? Is it illegal to loiter in a graveyard? Probably not!

I'm sure in a situation like this, he assumed they were. I'm not sure of the rest of the state, but graveyards in my town are illegal to enter after the sun goes down (grave robberies were the cause for this action). However, I'm sure that this would be punishable by a fine and or community service, unless the perpetrator had a prior record of illegal activity. In this case Swallows' was in the wrong. He should have called the authorities and let LEO's deal with it.

[*]Convenience store robbers? Don't get involved.

Lots of kids play with airsoft guns and do stupid stuff. How do you know that it's not a teen prank? Are you sure it's a robbery? Unless I'm within spitting distance and can clearly see that the perp has a real gun or the gun already went "bang", then I'm not getting involved. How confident are you of your shooting ability under duress? Will you accidentally hit bystanders? In this case, I would attempt to save the life of the clerk, but only if I am within spitting distance and absolutely sure that it is really a robbery.

I own several air soft guns that even I as a gunsmith can't tell they are in fact "toys" until I take a VERY close look. I have a glock 19 air soft gun that unless you actually hold it in your hand and/or look directly into the barrel at under 3-4 feet, you can't tell the difference between it and my real G19. I don't think that myself or a LEO is going to say "Stop! let me get a closer look at your gun!" in a situation like that. I don't care who you are, if you pull a "fake" weapon on a person to commit a crime... it's still an armed robbery, and I have the right to use lethal force upon assessing the situation (if there is even time to assess the situation). These types of "toy gun" incidents, however unfortunate, still happen all the time. In the end the justification would be the suspects intent IMHO. However, IANAL. As far as accidentally hitting innocent bystanders, that is why I actually seek out training and practice those techniques on a regular basis. You are responsible for every bullet or fragment of a bullet that you fire. This is why you must be trained to process the situation quickly and react without reckless abandon.

[*]A stranger possibly getting raped? Don't get involved.

How do you know that it's really rape? Some women "cry rape" just to get an innocent man in trouble. Had this happen to a buddy of mine. He had stood up a girl that he had a date with. She was mad at him and cried rape when she thought that there were no witnesses. Luckily I was crouching to tie my shoelaces and she did not see me, but I did witness that my friend did no such thing. If I was there at the incident from beginning to end, then I would assist the person getting raped. But, if I jumped into the situation in the middle, how do I really know that it's rape?

I see your point, and have seen this type of thing happen to innocent men before. IMHO, In a scenario like this you need to assess the situation before playing Superman. If the "rapist" is a "safe" distance from the "victim" and he's not armed and/or charging her (and she's not been previously assaulted, with the rapist fleeing the scene), I would simply let my presence be known and have my phone out ready to dial 911. This would likely stop a potential rape, and keep anyone from being hurt. Once LEO's arrive on that scene, they can get descriptions of the "attacker" and make sense of the situation. However if the attacker were actually physically assaulting the victim, that is where I will use whatever force is necessary to stop the threat. Even if I held the rapist at gunpoint until LEO's arrived. (however, if the attacker got away before I could distribute whatever force I deemed necessary, I would simply give my statement and description of the assailant to the LEO's when they arrived.)

[*]A police officer getting beat down by suspects? Don't get involved.[/list]

How do you know if the police officer is getting beat down by an OFF-DUTY cop? It happens. Again, I would only assist if I was there to witness the event unfold from beginning to end.

We can throw "what if's" out like this all day, but in the end an assault is an assault. I don't think that an assault between 2 officers is that common of an occurrence to worry about the person in street clothes being a "good guy". Since we're throwing out possible scenarios... If you choose to do nothing, you may be a witness to a very questionable murder. You are going to have a hard time convincing LEO's and a jury of your peers why you didn't stop and try to render some type of aid to the officer (If the officers life was in obvious danger). I'll doubt that these people will like or believe your "off duty officer" reasoning. Once again, IANAL, and if someone can shed some light on this, I would greatly appreciate it.

In the end, I do see your points, and respect your opinion on the subject. In stressful encounters like the ones listed above, I don't believe that anyone would know how they would handle the situation at hand, until they were in the middle of it. Unfortunately crimes and the criminals don't always leave a clean line scenario of "this is what you should do if"... In the end you have to act with what you believe is appropriate for the situation at hand. It's not always black and white, but nothing ever is.

gemini wrote:3.Probably do whatever I could to assist someones Mother,Daughter,Wife or Sister from being raped, and I hope other
Texans would man up and do the same. That's not being Superman, that's common decency.

What if it's a man getting raped?

KD5NRH wrote:

gemini wrote:3.Probably do whatever I could to assist someones Mother,Daughter,Wife or Sister from being raped, and I hope other
Texans would man up and do the same. That's not being Superman, that's common decency.

What if it's a man getting raped?

well...umm...yeah....maybe... I'd help if help was needed.
I guess for that matter we could play the what if game some more.
What if it's a gorilla, goat, chicken, or a danish? I'd have to say I might help them all, except for the danish (I'm sure it deserved it)