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Baytown wrote:While one may be "tipping his hand" with open carry, I would think the thug would look to someone else to attack. Which looks more inviting to a wolf? A walking sheep, or a bag full of gristle?

It would be nice for civilians to at least have the option.

glenn

Ever hear of a sucker punch?

If a do-bad wants what's inside of a business/bank bad enough, you will be the first to go down.

It appears that the majority so far would like the "option"...Like me...

The (I'm not going to say they are a minority opinion...far from it) folks who don't like the idea of open carry, have valid points as well...

Over the years I have been following this issue...I have noticed that there have not been any reports/stories about anyone (licence required or not) carrying openly (legally) getting surprised and or accosted "first" in any illegal act by another (criminal) in any of the States that allow open carry...

I stand to be corrected if someone comes up with an example...

The other point I would have to make is if it were to become an option, I have not heard of any special requirements that refer to "retention" methods...(i.e.: types of holsters)...

Would you be required to carry openly with a holster with a thumb break, or other "flap" style holster???

Or would it be acceptable to use the standard holsters we carry "concealed" but "openly" and not under a concealment garment or a similar clothing article...

- just something to juice up the conversation...

Later,
Steve

In our "warm" summer climate in Texas, it would be so much easier to open carry. I wouldn't have to dress for the occasion and life would be so much easier.

That said, I think open carry in Texas would be a political mistake. In states where open carry has always been legal, people are largely accustomed to it and the sight of a gun doesn't ruffle enough feathers to pose a threat in the legislature.

In Texas however, I'm afraid open carry would generate a strong response by folks who really don't care one way or the other about concealed carry. Anti-gunners like Dave Smith and Nina Butts would have great photo opportunities and sound bites for the evening news. I fear that, at the very least, we would see strong political pressure to increase the number of "off limits" locations. All it would take is an investigative reporter getting video of someone walking through the parking lot of a school or into a church or hospital to transform the out-of-sight-out-of-mind people into political anti-CHL activists.

Currently, few businesses post 30.06 signs but I believe many would do so, if people openly carried in their buildings, especially if other customers complained or left the premises.

Florida tried open carry for a very short period of time. If I recall correctly, it was less than a year. Apparently, open carry caused many of the problems mentioned above.

Open carry would be very convenient, but perhaps only until carrying handguns would once again become a major political issue in Texas. For me personally, it's one of those situations where I had better be careful what I ask for; I might get it, along with the unintended consequences.

I know reasonable minds can differ on this issue and this is merely my view.

Regards,
Chas.

stevie_d_64 wrote:It appears that the majority so far would like the "option"...Like me...

The (I'm not going to say they are a minority opinion...far from it) folks who don't like the idea of open carry, have valid points as well...

Over the years I have been following this issue...I have noticed that there have not been any reports/stories about anyone (licence required or not) carrying openly (legally) getting surprised and or accosted "first" in any illegal act by another (criminal) in any of the States that allow open carry...

I stand to be corrected if someone comes up with an example...

Think "bank guard".
(Been there, done the job, always the first thing on your mind)

They will be disarmed/shot first. Why? Most obvious threat.

I honestly could care less if they allowed open carry.
I wouldn't do it. Not on a bet. Not with my luck.
I agree with the "poker" analogy. Why tip your hand?

I guess it would be too much to ask just let anyone carry whatever they want. Own a gun. Don't own a gun. Heck even class 3.

Imagine a world where people are held accountable for thier actions and not just mere possession of a gun.

Guess I'll go back to my nap because I'm still dreaming.

rickb308 wrote:Think "bank guard".
(Been there, done the job, always the first thing on your mind)

They will be disarmed/shot first. Why? Most obvious threat.

I honestly could care less if they allowed open carry.
I wouldn't do it. Not on a bet. Not with my luck.
I agree with the "poker" analogy. Why tip your hand?

Ok, fair enough...

Think "uniform"...

But don't misunderstand me...I am not advocating the premise that the carrying of a weapon "openly", is any advocation to "intervene" in any capacity or charter, in any situation in the form of a response to a criminal act...Even though our State law allows us to choose to do so, its not a duty in my interpretation...I think most here understand we are not commissioned Law Enforcement Officers in this State...

All I am discussing is advocating for the "option", not a requirement to open carry...Once you get that option, I believe it does many things more positive than negative...

Although I do understand what Charles is talking about, I do not agree that the "burn" should be on our "community", it will be the other way around...And they will just have to get used to that fact...

With this "option", the penalties for carrying a firearm for lawful purposes, and the unintentional" printing or "failure to conceal" clauses become null and void...

I never did like the idea that we could be "allowed" to carry a concealed firearm in this State, and then have a heavy penalty levied against you for an unintentional display of that firearm...I don't think any of us intentionally plan to "flash" the public with our capability, so why make it such a damning offence if you do...

Now before you get to thinking that I have been effected by this "failure to conceal" clause...I haven't...I believe there is data to support that the problem is very rare to non-existant for the 250,000 +/- people in this State who have the licence...

I think Texas has gotten past the novelty of this law, and that it is time to explore avenues and modifications which further demonstrate the maturity and positive attitude that the overwhelming majority of our community proves every single day the sun comes up...

This is why I brought the subject up...This session of our State legistlature has brought forth some really enhancing bills that help us...And there have been some that continue to want to hack away at it, and further erode and diffuse this law, making it ineffective...

By going in a direction and exploring (introducing) ideas that expand and help our side of the issue, it defeats the other sides argument against us...And makes it harder and harder for them to continue the attacks against us...

I personally would want everyone to have the choice to carry in whatever manner they are comfortable with...Thats my motivation in discussing this topic...

The question for those who may have reservations about this you have to ask yourselves...

"If a State Rep or Senator were to introduce a bill like this, would you support or object its passing into law???"

Later,
Steve

stevie_d_64 wrote:P
A question to answer is this...

Is Texas ready to grow up and allow this to be a choice for its citizens???

So anyone who disagrees believes that Texans are childish? And currently we are being treated as childish?

With this "option", the penalties for carrying a firearm for lawful purposes, and the unintentional" printing or "failure to conceal" clauses become null and void...

Texas has no "unintentional printing " law or fail to conceal law. It is Intentionally fail to conceal. Your jacket blowing back in an unexpected gust of wind is not a violation.

and then have a heavy penalty levied against you for an unintentional display of that firearm.

There are no penalties for unintentional display. I would love to discuss the merits of this topic, but only if you refrain from mistating amd misrepresenting facts to make your points.

As stated by others, I would like to have the option even though I probably wouldn't open carry for purely tactical reasons.


It sure would be great if we could eliminate that pesky penalty for "failure to conceal", though...

While I would like the option, I would probably continue to carry concealed, just as others have stated.

txinvestigator wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote:P
A question to answer is this...

Is Texas ready to grow up and allow this to be a choice for its citizens???

So anyone who disagrees believes that Texans are childish? And currently we are being treated as childish?

With this "option", the penalties for carrying a firearm for lawful purposes, and the unintentional" printing or "failure to conceal" clauses become null and void...

Texas has no "unintentional printing " law or fail to conceal law. It is Intentionally fail to conceal. Your jacket blowing back in an unexpected gust of wind is not a violation.

and then have a heavy penalty levied against you for an unintentional display of that firearm.

There are no penalties for unintentional display. I would love to discuss the merits of this topic, but only if you refrain from mistating amd misrepresenting facts to make your points.

Let me clarify this for you, if I may...By "Texas" I am implying a segment of our elected officials in this State...Both in Austin and our local city folks...Not all of them, but enough of them do believe you and I are children, and that our resisting their ideas on this subject (I am assuming you are against certain, or maybe all forms of restrictions on this right), and they think we are "silly" for wanting to carry a gun for any purpose...

The "silly" quote was from a Houston City Counsel person, and is public record which I can provide if you are interested...

If you are concluding that I think you, or anyone else, is childish for dissagreeing with me on the issue...Please go back and review what I have stated...I am for the "option" to do so...Which if you look at it, it would negate the penalty for "failure to conceal", whatever the cause, whether it is intentional or not...And to not allow a charge of "disturbing the peace" to be explored either...

Whatever you may think, I am actually for removing whole sections of unneccessary infringements on us in this State...

Ok...Tell you what...Even though it could be implied as an intentional act...Lets draw up a simple senario...Call it one of those dreaded "What ifs"...

Lets say you are unintentionally walking down a street in Downtown Houston (pick any Texas city, doesn't matter)...You are licenced to carry a concealed firearm on your person...You are suddenly hit with that "big gust" of wind and are unaware (remember unintentional) that your cover garment concealing your firearm gets hooked back on top of the handle of your firearm (you still don't realize this has happened, but I and some others certainly wouldn't blame you for that)...

You actually make it a couple of blocks before Houston's finest come along to see what the story is...

You actually may be right, nothing may happen...I would hope nothing does...

But...

I stand to be corrected, but I had read somewhere that there are punative actions that can be taken against a licence holder in this State for "failure to conceal"...Maybe I read wrong, or have not been instructed properly of the law...Those penalties include, and are not restricted in the determination of negligence or intent; suspension or revocation of your licence for periods of time...

Now...

Through all of this, I would like to state (because I feel I must) that I and others are in no way irresponsible in our safe handling and our compliance with the law...We do the best we can, and look for ways to actually improve the law by encouraging the elimination of ambiguities and other problems by amendments (i.e.: SB501, etc etc)...

I like to talk about this stuff as well, but I'm just not diggin' this idea you have that I am utterly clueless about the whole issue...I'm a lot of things, but I never said I knew it all...

Ya'll play nice nah, ya hear!

Later,
Steve

Charles brings up good points about the possible political ramifications of legalizing open carry. There is a definite possibility that legalizing open carry could actually put MORE restrictions on those of us who have taken on the responsibility of carrying a gun.

Also, tactically speaking, I would never open carry. In fact, the ONLY time that I might ever even THINK about open carry is while hunting or at the range or perhaps hiking or something along those lines. I have no GOOD reason for wanting to open carry even in those situations though.

On one hand, I do not think open carry is a good idea. I have no problem with other people who would open carry, but I would not do it myself. My preference is for nobody to know that I have a gun unless something happens and it needs to come out.

On the other hand, it would be nice to not have to worry so much about concealment. If open carry were legalized, I would still carry concealed....but I might not worry so much about those wind gusts we keep talking about.

Oops...

Braden wrote:Oops...

I don't even want to know... :)

Double post.

Braden wrote:Double post.

Good, I was worried about ya brother... :P