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gringop wrote:What would be the consequences of a hangfire of an ejected pistol round during a practice session compared to the consequences of not quickly fixing a malfunctioning gun during a gun fight?

If you managed to get the round completely out of the weapon before it went off, there would not be much risk of any serious consequences. If however, it decided to go off while you were in the process of clearing it, it could be deadly.

In addition to an un-aimed shot, the slide could do some serious damage by cycling before you got the round out of the chamber. It's not hard to imagine several possibilities.

Hidden away somewhere, Gringo, in my post, but obviously not loud and clear, was a distinction drawn when you are, e.g., in combat. The rules are different when someone is shooting back. All you have to do is talk to someone experienced in the operation and firing of big guns (where are you GM Jim? --it is even more fun when you have to worry about a cookoff, at the same time, isn't it, Jim? Some good judgment, and perhaps a little luck, is required then). I am making an assumption here, Jim, when, as we both know, different ships, different long splices.

In a handgun, rifle or shotgun the major danger from a rare, I say again rare, hangfire comes at the point where the slide has just been jacked and the bullet has not yet been ejected, same with respect to rifles and shotguns. Playing cowboy with handguns instead of ranking safety as #1, when there is time to be safe, is not my way of doing things. I have seen the result of a hangfire in a handgun just as the slide was jacked out of battery to clear a suspected misfire, and before ejection. Not very pretty. Thank goodness, after some doubt, the shooter retained his vision.

Respectfully,

Elmo

There has to be an appropriate balance between safety and training, is it safer to train correctly and ingrain an immediate response to a misfire into your mind, or treat every misfire like it could be a hang fire. Its also safer to fire on a static range, not draw from the holster, not run a rifle and a handgun in the same drill, not shoot steel, not shoot around barricades etc.

b322da wrote:Hidden away somewhere, Gringo, in my post, but obviously not loud and clear, was a distinction drawn when you are, e.g., in combat. The rules are different when someone is shooting back.
Elmo

If you don't train for it in training, you won't do it in combat (or competition). There is no Combat Switch that you flip that turns your training to "wait 30 seconds with the muzzle pointed down range" into a speedy 2.5 second Tap Rack Bang or a 5 second double feed clearance. That is the primary point I wanted to make.

I understand what the issues are re. hangfires. I also understand what causes hangfires vs. misfires and what frequency I have experienced both events in my shooting career. I am confident that when I'm shooting modern ammo and I get a dud, I can extract it and move on. When I am shooting 50 year old ammo or sustained fire in a closed bolt machine gun, I'll do things a bit differently.

I think we're getting away from the OP's original question so I'll bow out of this thread.

Gringop

gringop wrote:If you don't train for it in training, you won't do it in combat (or competition). There is no Combat Switch that you flip that turns your training to "wait 30 seconds with the muzzle pointed down range" into a speedy 2.5 second Tap Rack Bang or a 5 second double feed clearance. That is the primary point I wanted to make.

Exactly; I'm sure the officer who was killed with a handful of fired brass thought he would just switch to combat mode and dump his revolver properly in combat, but when it really happened, he retained the hulls just like he'd trained to do.

How long should you wait to determine a HangFire is not the case?

I had a squib the other day (two weeks, maybe) and believed all I had heard was the usual click, but was uncertain whether or not the primer had fired.
I waited a bit, with the barrel downrange, then dropped the mag, and ejected the "round." The round was less round, and more cylinder! What I mean is the primer had fired, sent the bullet forward an inch or so, where it logged (rather convincingly, I might add) in the barrel. Had I performed y'all's speedy TapRackBang in the middle of that, I probably wouldn't be typing right now.

so, where's the balance? I'll leave it at that.

An ejected hang-fire discharging outside the gun, will disrupt the time-space continuum and cause the world to spin backwards. Or, probably nothin'.

"Myth Busters" had an episode on this a couple of weeks ago there is more danger from the flying brass than the bullet. If you are hit with the brass you may or may not be bruised or cut. I think it is a non problem.

I've put alot of ammo down range in my life, and the only time I ever had a hang fire ( in fact every round in the box of 20 or so hang fired) was in the 90's when I was shooting some 40's dated cordite Brit .303. It was kind of predictable, click......boom, click.....boom.

FWIW, no ammo I know of ever showed a "use by date." LOL

I have reloads for my 300 Weatherby that I loaded in 1979. I still fire one from time to time for sentimental reasons. The only hang fires I've suffered were rounds I loaded under very high humidity. So, I agree with the earlier posts to protect your ammo from moisture and use factory ammo for self defense.

Finally, if any of y'all have any old, nasty, tarnished.... original Winchester Silvertips in 9mm or 45, feel free to PM me. That would be a bird nest on the ground for me. Old ammo is just fine.
Happy Trails! N

This weekend I shot my carry ammunition that had been in/out of service since early 2008, and had probably been manufactured in 2005-2006. Every cartridge fired, but all the time I was wondering if something would get hung up due to dinged cases or bullet tips. I have another box of cartridges in service now; since it is my last box of the ammunition I originally proofed in my gun I will have to work on finding some more. Still, it is reassuring to know that my weapon's care and maintenance was compatible with the ammunition and everything operated properly.

I am not trying to endorse a practice of keeping the same carry ammunition for ~3 years---just providing a real-world data point for consideration.

drjoker wrote:Hi,

I was wondering if I carry my CCW weapon with premium ammo and practice with the el cheapo ammo, and that CCW ammo has been around in my pocket since the 1990's, will it expire over time and fail to fire when needed?

Thanks,

I recently shot rifle and pistol ammo purchased about 40 years ago, when I was in high school (funny to see a box of good quality 30-06 marked $2.99) No problems. I also shot some military rifle ammunition that was already old when my father purchased it back when I was in high school --Korean War vintage I think. I shot everything that looked good visually, also without a problem. Of course, all this ammo spent most of its life properly stored.

yerasimos wrote:This weekend I shot my carry ammunition that had been in/out of service since early 2008, and had probably been manufactured in 2005-2006. Every cartridge fired, but all the time I was wondering if something would get hung up due to dinged cases or bullet tips. I have another box of cartridges in service now; since it is my last box of the ammunition I originally proofed in my gun I will have to work on finding some more. Still, it is reassuring to know that my weapon's care and maintenance was compatible with the ammunition and everything operated properly.

I am not trying to endorse a practice of keeping the same carry ammunition for ~3 years---just providing a real-world data point for consideration.

If you have a semiauto, with carry ammo that old, your biggest risk would be that a cartridge that had been chambered and unchambered multiple times would have enough rim damage that the extractor might slip off when it's fired and the empty shell would remain in the chamber or would only partially extract, thus tying up the gun.

If anyone has any old ammo, especially defensive handgun ammo, let me know and I'll get rid of it for you in a safe manner.

Zoomie wrote:If anyone has any old ammo, especially defensive handgun ammo, let me know and I'll get rid of it for you in a safe manner.

I have 1000 rounds of Lake City M855. Any idea what I should do with it?

Pawpaw wrote:

Zoomie wrote:If anyone has any old ammo, especially defensive handgun ammo, let me know and I'll get rid of it for you in a safe manner.

I have 1000 rounds of Lake City M855. Any idea what I should do with it?

Yes.

Test every round and report on the results, or, if that would be inconvenient, send it on to me and I'll take care of that onerous chore for you.....