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RECIT wrote:

function12 wrote:I have saw a few of these were they did find a shotgun and they just sold it to someone.

What shotgun???

It was an old 10 guage. They took it to a range. Shot it and sold it.

firefighter3217 wrote:

Dave2 wrote:I think I heard someone say that the local PD will run the SN for you, but don't quote me on that.

so here's a question, say you buy a gun from a guy on the street, then go have the serial number run at the local PD... What then happens if it comes up as a stolen weapon? Are you then out the cost of the gun and the gun?

Probably, yeah. That's why it's important to draw up bills of sale and such. Also, whenever someone gives me their phone #, I usually call it right there in front of them to verify that they didn't misspeak/miswrite and I didn't mishear/misread (I've caught a few of each).

Commander wrote:Watching an episode of A&E's "Storage Wars" tonight, I heard an interesting statement. One of the buyers said that if they came across firearms in a storage locker that they bought, they had to be turned in to ATF. I wonder what ATF does with such surrendered firearms? Are they sold or destroyed? I wonder how ATF would even know if one finds a gun buried deep in a box in the back of some abandoned storage unit? I'd bet not many are turned in.

If they find a classic car, do they have to turn that in to DOT? Maybe in the Peoples Republic of California they do.

When someone buys abandoned property in good faith, and the property is proven to be stolen, I doubt they would be prosecuted for possession of stolen property. There can be exceptions, but in the context of the TV show, it should be obvious that they're not knowingly purchasing stolen goods.

If you watch and are familiar with the show, it was Barry who made that statement about turning firearms in to ATF. He had just purchased an abandoned locker and had found a box full of flare guns. Upon opening the box, he said he was "lucky" that these were flare guns, because he had "heard" that firearms had to be turned in to ATF. Maybe he has some type of misunderstanding of the laws; or as has been commented on, it could be some of those Kalifornia gun laws. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, who is to know what Barry finds in one of those lockers?

Though having been stationed in California for several years while in the USAF, I will not claim to know how ALL of California's firearms laws work by any means...BUT, they treat handguns a lot stricter than long-guns such as rifles and shotguns, as long as the rifle is not a banned "assault weapon". So maybe the difference is that the shotgun was okay to sell outright, but if other weapons such as handguns or "assault weapons" were found, THEN by state law they have to be turned in...or at least notify the authorities. And I am CERTAIN there will be a LOT of paperwork to complete, one way or another. Like I said, I don't pretend to know how all of it works, but their firearms laws are very in-depth and cover a lot of stuff that Texas just doesn't bother with at all...did I mention that I'm happy to be home in Texas?

IANAL, but the possession or transfer of stolen merchandise is a crime, is it not?

With all these legal questions being thrown around in this here forum, I'm gonna have to add a bit about me not being a lawyer and my posts not being legal advice to my signature...

TLE2 wrote:IANAL, but the possession or transfer of stolen merchandise is a crime, is it not?

With regards to possession, it is. I think they usually (always?) decline to prosecute if you had no way of knowing it was stolen, though. You still get whatever it is taken away from you, and my understanding is that it's on you to pursue getting your money back from whoever you bought it from.

Don't know about the transfer bit, though.

Dave2 wrote:With all these legal questions being thrown around in this here forum, I'm gonna have to add a bit about me not being a lawyer and my posts not being legal advice to my signature...

TLE2 wrote:IANAL, but the possession or transfer of stolen merchandise is a crime, is it not?

With regards to possession, it is. I think they usually (always?) decline to prosecute if you had no way of knowing it was stolen, though. You still get whatever it is taken away from you, and my understanding is that it's on you to pursue getting your money back from whoever you bought it from.

Don't know about the transfer bit, though.

I don't know about California but in Texas the relevant law should be TPC 31.03.

"the property is stolen and the actor appropriates the property knowing it was stolen by another"

My GF has bought several storage units at auctions. The storage place usually doesnt know what is in it and doesnt care. The buyers arent even allowed to look inside except from the doorway. We have seen several units go with rifles in them and no one cared. I have yet to luck upon those! Average price when we went was around $200. One unit had several hunting rifles hidden in the back and went for $275, I was a bit miffed when I found that out.

California has laws on the model of handgun you can own. The handgun must be on the list of approved guns. Barring the stolen or regularly illegal gun, I will bet if they find any that are not on the approved handgun list that they are required to turn them in as they legally can't buy that firearm unless they are a firearms dealer or LEO. The same would go for high-capacity magazines as anything over 10 rounds is not allowed. Here is the site that shows what is approved http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interestingly enough I have a Ruger Security Six that I could not sell in California because it is not on the approved list. Also, if I sold it to a dealer, then they couldn't sell it to an individual. And, that means the values for sale in California on those unapproved guns is driven WAY down because of the inability for resale except to LEO's.

Commander wrote:If you watch and are familiar with the show, it was Barry who made that statement about turning firearms in to ATF. He had just purchased an abandoned locker and had found a box full of flare guns. Upon opening the box, he said he was "lucky" that these were flare guns, because he had "heard" that firearms had to be turned in to ATF.

This was ON CAMERA, right?

And this "Barry" also made his statement for the record ON CAMERA, right?

Whether or not the items in question are discovered ON CAMERA or in private would seem to make a HUGE difference in their ultimate disposition.

Keith B wrote:California has laws on the model of handgun you can own. The handgun must be on the list of approved guns. Barring the stolen or regularly illegal gun, I will bet if they find any that are not on the approved handgun list that they are required to turn them in as they legally can't buy that firearm unless they are a firearms dealer or LEO. The same would go for high-capacity magazines as anything over 10 rounds is not allowed. Here is the site that shows what is approved http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As a member who spends a lot of time in California and has a few Ca Compliant AR rifles and shoots out there I want to clarify some points.

1-A firearm must be on the DOJ Safe Roster to buy new from a FFL, there is an LEO exemption, but it is not in any way shape or form illegal to have a gun not on the Roster. There are several ways "normal" people can get an off roster handgun, all require what is called a PPT(Person to Person Transfer). A PPT must be done at a FFL where both parties are present and both must be California residents..
A-An LEO can sell an off Roster gun.
B-A new resident to the State can bring any off roster guns they have as long as they do not fall into the AW category(Taurus Judge is an SBR under California Law), and they bring no complete mags that hold over 10 rounds.
C- An Intrafamilial Transfer, this is a transfer from a Grandparent/Parent/Child that lives in another State. Up and down the family, no brother/cousins /uncles.


Also want to add that under California law possession of a high cap mag(over 10 rounds) in not illegal, what is illegal is the manufacture/importation, and selling/transfer of a HiCap mag. If you find a HiCap or even say order a 10 round mag online and the company accidentally sends you a 15 round, you have done nothing illegal, as possession is not illegal.

Keith B wrote:Interestingly enough I have a Ruger Security Six that I could not sell in California because it is not on the approved list. Also, if I sold it to a dealer, then they couldn't sell it to an individual. And, that means the values for sale in California on those unapproved guns is driven WAY down because of the inability for resale except to LEO's.

Completely the opposite, since Off Roster guns are harder to come by, their value is often quite higher. For example a Glock 17 Gen4 will sell for $700+ in California, when the HK45 went on sale and was $750-$850 new, they would sell for $1500 in minutes in California when they showed up on the secondary market. Things have slowed down and prices have dropped a bit(as they have everywhere), but they are still higher than in other States where there is no Roster.

Interesting Rebel. I was misinformed on the FTF transfer, and also the valuing of the off-roster guns. Thanks for the info.

Keith B wrote:Interesting Rebel. I was misinformed on the FTF transfer, and also the valuing of the off-roster guns. Thanks for the info.

If you were selling on Gunbroker and some "civilian" wanted to buy your off roster handgun, that would be a no go.

What would happen would be that the gun would either sit at the dealer till an LEO bought it or it would have to be sent back to you(if you decided to refund them), but since it was received by an FFL, I don't know if you would have to have it shipped to your local FFL and you would have to fill out the 4473, or if it could be shipped back directly to you.