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I'm not going to get my shorts all in a wad over jacket/core separation in water. Water will separate nearly all non bonded bullets. Also jacket separation in the target isn't such a bad thing you may get a bonus wound channel out of the episode. Barrier penetration is the only place I worry about jacket separation and it's way down on my list. Both bullets performed well and both bullets penetrated adequately, one without it's jacket and one with it's jacket.

The Gold Dot is not technically a jacketed bullet because the bullet core is swaged then the copper is applied in a coating process and the hollow point is punched in at the end of the process. I carry CORBON DPX ammo in both 9mm and 40 because their monolithic design will defeat barriers and still expand while penetrating 12-15" or more.

AndyC wrote:You would need to try the bonded version of the Golden Saber and compare apples with apples - or get a larger sample by shooting more of each

These Golden Sabres were left in the magazine of my Beretta when I was laid off from a private security company. I wonder why they didn't ask me to empty my magazine of their supplied ammo?

I bought the Gold Dots at the recommendation of a former local police officer. He said that those were what they were issued when he was on the force. I have often heard that it is a good idea to carry what your local LEOs carry. I just wish they weren't so dang expensive!

I think I'll go back out today & test the cheap 115gr Remington JHP out of both my 9s.

I'll be interested in seeing this. I keep all the mags for my Sub-2000 loaded with the cheap Remington JHP's. I figure that they've got to be better than FMJ, but it's too expensive to keep 150 rounds of Hydra-shok loaded up.

I wouldn't use the results I get from a 3.1 or 4.9" barrel to see how they might do in your 16.1" barrel S2k.

Not really apples to apples, but I carry Gold Dots in my various .45s, although I also have some Federal HSTs that I sometimes carry. I used to have a link to a web page that showed test results from an ammo comparison performed by the San Marcos PD. In that test, they compared Gold Dots in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP to their counterparts from other premium manufacturers, including Federal HST, and I think some Corbon loads among others. This was a real "torture" test where the bullet designs for each caliber were tested not only in ballistic gelatin and various similar media, but also through car doors and windshields - variables to bullet performance that a cop might likely encounter in a shooting - and the Gold Dots came out the best overall, for all three calibers. Other bullets might have had slight performance edges in a single category or other, but no other bullet design performed so consistently in all of them as the Gold Dots. I wish I could find that link, but I must have deleted the bookmark. Anyway, the HSTs did fairly well, although not quite as good as the Gold Dots. But that test is the principle reason that I am comfortable carrying Gold Dot ammunition.

I fired 2 rounds of the cheap 115gr Remington JHP from each of my pistols. Into a jug of water on top of several layers of cardboard, & into the ground.

The first one in my M9 was this one with a 5gr Crosman Copper plated steel .17cal BB plastic cemented in the hole.

The thought behind the BB was that it could help in feeding (although I have not had any issues with that), it could help the aerodynamics of the bullet in flight (but at the range I was shooting, it wasn't enough to matter), it could possibly cause increased expansion when the BB impacted an object the steel BB would slow down more than the lead bullet, if the BB separated from the round, then that would be an additional wound track, and it would add a little mass to the round.

The actual results were unexpected. The jacket was caught by the cardboard like what happened to the Golden Sabre round. There was considerably less expansion of the lead but it & the separated BB were recovered a few inches in the dirt. The lead bullet looked kinda like a wadcutter round when recovered.


The 2nd round from the Beretta blew up the water jug much more violently than any other round I fired during any of this testing. However, the bullet was found stuck in the cardboard with the jacket still attached. Obviously, most of the energy of the round was transferred into the jug of water.


Then I fired 2 identical factory rounds from the same batch from my KelTec P-11 into the same jug of water (that was different than the previous jugs). 1 of them performed as intended with the jacket staying attached to the lead & recovered in the mud, but with the other round, the jacket was caught by the cardboard & the lead was recovered from the mud.

Kind of looks like the Dots win.

What are your thoughts on the Winchester PDX1 in 45 ACP? Recently bought some for my Colt Defender. Shoots 'em good enough, no FTFs, etc. Aren't the PDX1 kind of new? I bought them because Wal Mart had them, not for any other particular reason though.

Jimineer wrote:Kind of looks like the Dots win.

What are your thoughts on the Winchester PDX1 in 45 ACP? Recently bought some for my Colt Defender. Shoots 'em good enough, no FTFs, etc. Aren't the PDX1 kind of new? I bought them because Wal Mart had them, not for any other particular reason though.

Well, they passed the FBI ballistics tests, so that's a plus...

You'll find that they're quite similar to the Black Talons, but mind you, NOT the same. Do some google images searches for the black talon expanded vs. the PDX1 expanded. You'll see the similarities. I've put plenty of the PDX1's through pigs, and they do the job just fine. Very reliable expansion, very consistent performance, which is definitely a plus. I still have a bunch, and they're my primary pig shooting round for pistols. For EDC I use a different one, the Ranger T-Series, but I just like the name "Winchester Ranger" on the box (and they perform ALMOST identically to Black Talons, which I'm kind of in love with)

Short answer, PDX1's are great IMO. As always though, it's ALWAYS worth the money to run a mag through your weapon with your carry ammo to ensure feeding reliability. Optimally, you'd run a lot through it, but that can get pricey.

Bonded Golden Saber and Federal HST.