TexasCHLforum.com

I'm grabbing my sash.

So why don't plain-clothes officers keep a "Raid Jacket" in their trunk - along with the AR15 - just for scenarios like this? Apparently, the poor guy who got shot had a rifle in his car, "just in case." He might still be alive if he also had a blue windbreaker with "POLICE" in big gold letters on the back, or something like that. To me, it isn't a training issue so much as it is a preparedness issue which falls more squarely on the chain of command than it does on the line officers - even the plain clothed ones. If they had expected an plain clothes officer to carry a rifle in his car, and if they had expected him to respond in his capacity as an LEO in such a situation, then shame on them for not also providing him with some kind of covering to identify him in a shooting scenario as friend, and not foe.

The Annoyed Man wrote:So why don't plain-clothes officers keep a "Raid Jacket" in their trunk - along with the AR15 - just for scenarios like this? Apparently, the poor guy who got shot had a rifle in his car, "just in case." He might still be alive if he also had a blue windbreaker with "POLICE" in big gold letters on the back, or something like that. To me, it isn't a training issue so much as it is a preparedness issue which falls more squarely on the chain of command than it does on the line officers - even the plain clothed ones. If they had expected an plain clothes officer to carry a rifle in his car, and if they had expected him to respond in his capacity as an LEO in such a situation, then shame on them for not also providing him with some kind of covering to identify him in a shooting scenario as friend, and not foe.

A fluorescent traffic vest with police markings is another viable option for carry in the vehicle.

It's not stealthy, but stealth isn't your biggest concern when you're in plainclothes with uniformed officers responding to your location from multiple directions.

Excaliber wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:So why don't plain-clothes officers keep a "Raid Jacket" in their trunk - along with the AR15 - just for scenarios like this? Apparently, the poor guy who got shot had a rifle in his car, "just in case." He might still be alive if he also had a blue windbreaker with "POLICE" in big gold letters on the back, or something like that. To me, it isn't a training issue so much as it is a preparedness issue which falls more squarely on the chain of command than it does on the line officers - even the plain clothed ones. If they had expected an plain clothes officer to carry a rifle in his car, and if they had expected him to respond in his capacity as an LEO in such a situation, then shame on them for not also providing him with some kind of covering to identify him in a shooting scenario as friend, and not foe.

A fluorescent traffic vest with police markings is another viable option for carry in the vehicle.

It's not stealthy, but stealth isn't your biggest concern when you're in plainclothes with uniformed officers responding to your location from multiple directions.

I agree. ANYTHING that would have identified this officer as a good guy would have probably saved his life.

I can think of other situations too. What about if an off-duty LEO uses his gun in the apprehension and/or shooting of a suspect, and uniformed officers roll up while the off-duty guy still has his gun in hand? I think that among other things, the first order of business for this police department is to make sure that all officers are supplied with such a jacket or other identifying cover garment that they can keep in their vehicles for just such occasions.

A better idea how about a body armor with Police lettering?

The Annoyed Man wrote:I can think of other situations too. What about if an off-duty LEO uses his gun in the apprehension and/or shooting of a suspect, and uniformed officers roll up while the off-duty guy still has his gun in hand?

This is not an isolated incident. There was a similar "friendly fire" homicide in NYC a few months ago.

Apparently there is a pervasive attitude that anyone with a gun not wearing blue is a bad guy.

I'm reminded of a bad old joke about life as a seaman in the Navy: If it moves salute it. If it stands still paint it gray.

- Jim

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:So why don't plain-clothes officers keep a "Raid Jacket" in their trunk - along with the AR15 - just for scenarios like this? Apparently, the poor guy who got shot had a rifle in his car, "just in case." He might still be alive if he also had a blue windbreaker with "POLICE" in big gold letters on the back, or something like that. To me, it isn't a training issue so much as it is a preparedness issue which falls more squarely on the chain of command than it does on the line officers - even the plain clothed ones. If they had expected an plain clothes officer to carry a rifle in his car, and if they had expected him to respond in his capacity as an LEO in such a situation, then shame on them for not also providing him with some kind of covering to identify him in a shooting scenario as friend, and not foe.

A fluorescent traffic vest with police markings is another viable option for carry in the vehicle.

It's not stealthy, but stealth isn't your biggest concern when you're in plainclothes with uniformed officers responding to your location from multiple directions.

I agree. ANYTHING that would have identified this officer as a good guy would have probably saved his life.

I can think of other situations too. What about if an off-duty LEO uses his gun in the apprehension and/or shooting of a suspect, and uniformed officers roll up while the off-duty guy still has his gun in hand? I think that among other things, the first order of business for this police department is to make sure that all officers are supplied with such a jacket or other identifying cover garment that they can keep in their vehicles for just such occasions.

AM,
Believe me, any officer with a modicum of common sense has ruminated on that scenario. As should any one with a CHL.

I know I have thought about it many times. The scenario, however unlikely to happen, that worries me most is a "Mexican Standoff" where the LEO is unable to see the BG upon arriving at the scene.

seamusTX wrote:
...This is not an isolated incident. There was a similar "friendly fire" homicide in NYC a few months ago...

- Jim

AHA! The plot thickens.

SeamusTx's link didn't work for me. It was subscription only. Here's another

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/ ... 300003599/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems like some more communication could have helped advert this tragedy. If the Metro Transportation Officer had called in and said that he had a rifle and was on the scene the other officers could have been notified and he might still be alive.

WildBill wrote:SeamusTx's link didn't work for me. It was subscription only. Here's another

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/03/ ... 300003599/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems like some more communication could have helped advert this tragedy. If the Metro Transportation Officer had called in and said that he had a rifle and was on the scene the other officers could have been notified and he might still be alive.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate". Movie title and actor, if you please

The movie is "Cool Hand Luke", 1967, starring Paul Newman.

But the line in question was delivered by the sheriff, who may have been Strother Martin.

SIA

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:The movie is "Cool Hand Luke", 1967, starring Paul Newman.

But the line in question was delivered by the sheriff, who may have been Strother Martin.

SIA

You're close. It was Strother Martin, but he was the brutal prison warden, not the sheriff. Also, Paul Neuman, playing the part of Cool Hand Luke, spoke the line near the end of the movie, right before he was shot.

Updated my rant about Nassau County with another sad factoid. Somebody go check and make sure I spelled everything right...

baldeagle wrote:

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:The movie is "Cool Hand Luke", 1967, starring Paul Newman.

But the line in question was delivered by the sheriff, who may have been Strother Martin.

SIA

You're close. It was Strother Martin, but he was the brutal prison warden, not the sheriff. Also, Paul Neuman, playing the part of Cool Hand Luke, spoke the line near the end of the movie, right before he was shot.

A cigar for the WINNER!

Update on the shooting:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/li_o ... 6Y7h5QYVEN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Summary (info provide to NY Post by Nassau County Police Benevolent Association President):
- Initial event (shooting the guy with the knife) was over.
- MTA cops assisting with "mop up' duty
- NCPD Special Ops Officer Breitkopf and his partner roll up in their car
- Breitkopf walks towards house with rifle over his shoulder and badge hanging around his neck.
- Unidentified retired NYPD sergeant who lives in the neighborhood and was part of the looky-loo crowd shouts, "GUN!"
- One MTA cop tries to take rifle away from Breitkopf
- Other MTA cop, Glenn Gentile, shoots Breitkopf in the side
- MTA cops are trying to handcuff Breitkopf on the lawn when Breitkopf's partner runs up and yells, "He's one of us!"