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...I don't see the point of carrying into the show at all, if it's 30.06 posted and you can't have it loaded...it's no good at all...just a hassle to go through...and to reload after passing the gatekeepers would guarantee getting hit with every infraction they could dig up...that's REALLY tuggin' on Superman's cape, so to speak...wishin' we could carry inside loaded don't make it so...I just don't go...

Bullwhip wrote:

cbr600 wrote:It's irrelevant to 30.06 if a handgun is loaded or unloaded.

When they check your gun and zip-tie/whatever and give you permission to go on in, 30.06 don't count anymore because you have permission to be there with a handgun. Go straight to the restroom, cut off the zip tie and re load, keep it concealed and in the holster and enjoy shopping.

Actually, you only have permission to be there with an unload, zip-tied gun. Even though the laws don't differentiate between loaded and unloaded, the permission they grant you can be as specific as they choose. You have not been given permission to be there with a loaded handgun.

MasterOfNone wrote:

Bullwhip wrote:

cbr600 wrote:It's irrelevant to 30.06 if a handgun is loaded or unloaded.

When they check your gun and zip-tie/whatever and give you permission to go on in, 30.06 don't count anymore because you have permission to be there with a handgun. Go straight to the restroom, cut off the zip tie and re load, keep it concealed and in the holster and enjoy shopping.

Actually, you only have permission to be there with an unload, zip-tied gun. Even though the laws don't differentiate between loaded and unloaded, the permission they grant you can be as specific as they choose. You have not been given permission to be there with a loaded handgun.

Can you cite the code section that covers this? I thought that 30.06 restrictions were all or nothing. Can a facility owner really ban only loaded guns (or guns capable of using "evil" high capacity magazines, etc.?

Is this in section 30.06 or a different code section?

Katygunnut wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:

Bullwhip wrote:

cbr600 wrote:It's irrelevant to 30.06 if a handgun is loaded or unloaded.

When they check your gun and zip-tie/whatever and give you permission to go on in, 30.06 don't count anymore because you have permission to be there with a handgun. Go straight to the restroom, cut off the zip tie and re load, keep it concealed and in the holster and enjoy shopping.

Actually, you only have permission to be there with an unload, zip-tied gun. Even though the laws don't differentiate between loaded and unloaded, the permission they grant you can be as specific as they choose. You have not been given permission to be there with a loaded handgun.

Can you cite the code section that covers this? I thought that 30.06 restrictions were all or nothing. Can a facility owner really ban only loaded guns (or guns capable of using "evil" high capacity magazines, etc.?

Is this in section 30.06 or a different code section?

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, on property of another without effective
consent

Presumably, when you stop at the door by the 30.06 sign and have your gun zip tied, you are receiving effective consent to carry on the property.

call it question or concern, I wonder if the 30.06 is actually legal/or applies at "gun shows" as most of them are at municipally owned venues be it county or city owned convention centers. yes I realize they can post what ever they feel like and that you may beat the rap but not the ride, not really the point. as for the question of reholstering I would try to do it in a place that was somewhat out of sight. and to the poster that said that a gun show would be a bad place to rob someone really should think about that statement a bit more, if I knew as I do that gun shows make you either have a zip tie or have no ammo on your person to load your weapon with, hmm guy with several UNLOADED weapons, mine is loaded hmmm easy pickins

ScottDLS wrote:

Katygunnut wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:

Bullwhip wrote:

cbr600 wrote:It's irrelevant to 30.06 if a handgun is loaded or unloaded.

When they check your gun and zip-tie/whatever and give you permission to go on in, 30.06 don't count anymore because you have permission to be there with a handgun. Go straight to the restroom, cut off the zip tie and re load, keep it concealed and in the holster and enjoy shopping.

Actually, you only have permission to be there with an unload, zip-tied gun. Even though the laws don't differentiate between loaded and unloaded, the permission they grant you can be as specific as they choose. You have not been given permission to be there with a loaded handgun.

Can you cite the code section that covers this? I thought that 30.06 restrictions were all or nothing. Can a facility owner really ban only loaded guns (or guns capable of using "evil" high capacity magazines, etc.?

Is this in section 30.06 or a different code section?

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, on property of another without effective
consent

Presumably, when you stop at the door by the 30.06 sign and have your gun zip tied, you are receiving effective consent to carry on the property.

Thanks. I was asking about the previous posters statement that the effective consent at a gun show only applied to carrying a weapon with certain restrictions (unloaded and zip tied). Can "effective consent" be limited such that it only applies if the person meets certain pre-conditions? I had thought (perhaps erroneously) that effective consent applied to all legal manner of concealed carry and effectively negated the 30.06 notice in its entirety.

The Annoyed Man wrote:It's possibly illegal, too.

But probably not because most gun shows are on government property where a 30.06 sign is as legitimate as a sign telling Blacks sit in the back rows of a city bus.

TexasGal wrote:I have thought about the whole idea of just not going because of it, but our gun shows need our support.

Maybe they need our support but they don't deserve it until they stop posting 30.06 signs.

Remember that 30.06 signs only apply to someone with a CHL. They don't apply to the average person on the street. They also don't apply to illegal aliens, convicted felons, and other people who aren't even eligible to get a CHL. The signs only apply to CHL. As long as they discriminate against trained people who passed a strict background check, they don't deserve a penny!

JP171 hit the nail on the head. Yeah, I know that gun shows are full of cops, but did you know that the Luby's cafeteria shooting in Killeen, TX, was across the street from a police convention? As a teen, I worked at a jewelry store once that was robbed. This store was across the street from the police station.

O.K. So tell me if I'm wrong. I gather from the answers posted that the gun shows held on public land (city or state owned property) are not correctly 30.06 posted so I can discreetly carry away. However, I cannot carry at a gun show if it is on privately owned land. So, I'm thinking I should wear a Mexican Poncho and carry a pistol I am very familiar with so that I may safely re-load and reholster blind under that poncho....

JP171 wrote:call it question or concern, I wonder if the 30.06 is actually legal/or applies at "gun shows" as most of them are at municipally owned venues be it county or city owned convention centers. yes I realize they can post what ever they feel like and that you may beat the rap but not the ride, not really the point. as for the question of reholstering I would try to do it in a place that was somewhat out of sight. and to the poster that said that a gun show would be a bad place to rob someone really should think about that statement a bit more, if I knew as I do that gun shows make you either have a zip tie or have no ammo on your person to load your weapon with, hmm guy with several UNLOADED weapons, mine is loaded hmmm easy pickins

Katygunnut wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

Katygunnut wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:

Bullwhip wrote:When they check your gun and zip-tie/whatever and give you permission to go on in, 30.06 don't count anymore because you have permission to be there with a handgun. Go straight to the restroom, cut off the zip tie and re load, keep it concealed and in the holster and enjoy shopping.

Actually, you only have permission to be there with an unload, zip-tied gun. Even though the laws don't differentiate between loaded and unloaded, the permission they grant you can be as specific as they choose. You have not been given permission to be there with a loaded handgun.

Can you cite the code section that covers this? I thought that 30.06 restrictions were all or nothing. Can a facility owner really ban only loaded guns (or guns capable of using "evil" high capacity magazines, etc.?

Is this in section 30.06 or a different code section?

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, on property of another without effective
consent

Presumably, when you stop at the door by the 30.06 sign and have your gun zip tied, you are receiving effective consent to carry on the property.

Thanks. I was asking about the previous posters statement that the effective consent at a gun show only applied to carrying a weapon with certain restrictions (unloaded and zip tied). Can "effective consent" be limited such that it only applies if the person meets certain pre-conditions? I had thought (perhaps erroneously) that effective consent applied to all legal manner of concealed carry and effectively negated the 30.06 notice in its entirety.

First, consent doesn't technically negate the notice. For an offense to occur, two elements must exist - lack of consent AND notice. The notice still exists, but with consent, the first element is absent, so it is not an offense despite the notice.
Now, consider consent. One grants consent for a particular action. I may grant you consent to enter my home, as long as you wear pants. If you choose not to wear pants, you do not have consent.
At the gun show, you are told "you may enter as long as all guns are unloaded and zip-tied" (or more specifically, "you may not enter with a loaded gun.") Nothing in 30.06 indicates that granting consent to carry a zip-tied gun onto the property implies consent to carry non-zip-tied guns onto the property. The minute you cut the tie or load the gun, you have violated the condition the property owner has set for your consent.
This is, of course, not a court-tested opinion. Rather it is an exercise if applying what I see as common usage of consent.

MasterOfNone wrote:Now, consider consent. One grants consent for a particular action. I may grant you consent to enter my home, as long as you wear pants. If you choose not to wear pants, you do not have consent.
At the gun show, you are told "you may enter as long as all guns are unloaded and zip-tied" (or more specifically, "you may not enter with a loaded gun.")

If that's true, a business can ban loaded handguns without posting a 30.06 sign. Any sign banning loaded guns is sufficient for 30.05 trespassing, because they're prohibiting loaded handguns, not concealed handguns.

boba wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:Now, consider consent. One grants consent for a particular action. I may grant you consent to enter my home, as long as you wear pants. If you choose not to wear pants, you do not have consent.
At the gun show, you are told "you may enter as long as all guns are unloaded and zip-tied" (or more specifically, "you may not enter with a loaded gun.")

If that's true, a business can ban loaded handguns without posting a 30.06 sign. Any sign banning loaded guns is sufficient for 30.05 trespassing, because they're prohibiting loaded handguns, not concealed handguns.

Not exactly, because of 30.05(f):

30.05(f) wrote:(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

The only way they can ban you based on your gun is 30.06.

MasterOfNone wrote:

boba wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:Now, consider consent. One grants consent for a particular action. I may grant you consent to enter my home, as long as you wear pants. If you choose not to wear pants, you do not have consent.
At the gun show, you are told "you may enter as long as all guns are unloaded and zip-tied" (or more specifically, "you may not enter with a loaded gun.")

If that's true, a business can ban loaded handguns without posting a 30.06 sign. Any sign banning loaded guns is sufficient for 30.05 trespassing, because they're prohibiting loaded handguns, not concealed handguns.

Not exactly, because of 30.05(f):

30.05(f) wrote:(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

According to your theory, they are not saying "entry with a handgun was forbidden" at the gun show. On the contrary, they're allowing people to enter with handguns and rifles, as long as they're unloaded.

The basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a loaded gun of any kind is prohibited. (Except for people "professional enough" to shoot themself.)

That doesn't match 30.05(f) so 30.06 notice is not required to ban loaded guns, as long as they allow unloaded guns, if the conditional consent argument holds water.

boba wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:

boba wrote:

MasterOfNone wrote:Now, consider consent. One grants consent for a particular action. I may grant you consent to enter my home, as long as you wear pants. If you choose not to wear pants, you do not have consent.
At the gun show, you are told "you may enter as long as all guns are unloaded and zip-tied" (or more specifically, "you may not enter with a loaded gun.")

If that's true, a business can ban loaded handguns without posting a 30.06 sign. Any sign banning loaded guns is sufficient for 30.05 trespassing, because they're prohibiting loaded handguns, not concealed handguns.

Not exactly, because of 30.05(f):

30.05(f) wrote:(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

According to your theory, they are not saying "entry with a handgun was forbidden" at the gun show. On the contrary, they're allowing people to enter with handguns and rifles, as long as they're unloaded.

The basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a loaded gun of any kind is prohibited. (Except for people "professional enough" to shoot themself.)

That doesn't match 30.05(f) so 30.06 notice is not required to ban loaded guns, as long as they allow unloaded guns, if the conditional consent argument holds water.

I suspect that 30.05(f) has been interpreted such that prohibiting a loaded gun would still be considered "entry with a handgun was forbidden."
But on the matter of conditional consent, are you trespassing if you skate on property that is clearly posted "No Skating," if that property would allow you to carry your skateboard? Or if you smoke in a non-smoking establishment that otherwise permits you to carry your cigarettes with you?
Without conditional consent, then no organization could effectively prohibit any behavior on their properties.

Going back to answering the OP's question . I drop off my mag at the front desk and have my gun zip tied. On my way out, I will pick up the mag, pop it into the pistol and then walk just outside the door to one of those little cut's in the building where I can position my son (who blocks quite a wide field of vision) between me and anyone's vision while I cut the zip tie and rack it. Then we walk back to the car where I top it off +1.

Is that proper etiquette? I don't know but its what I do.

Am I offended by the fact that they have 30.06 signs? Yes. But I like to go see what I can see a couple times a year so I put up with it. I don't buy any firearms while I'm there, but I'll potentially buy some other stuff to go with my firearms. When I'm buying guns I get a better deal at Tomball Pawn than I get at the show.