TexasCHLforum.com

TrueFlog wrote:

aggiedev wrote:

baldeagle wrote:As it currently stands, campus carry will only apply to public institutions of higher education. Private schools could still ban guns.

Is there a place where we can read the "engrossed" version of SB 1581?

Not yet. Within the next few days, it should show up here under the section "Amendments". Also, I disagree with the analysis that it won't apply to private schools. We haven't seen today's amendment yet, but I expect it will be the same as the one Wentworth attached to SB 5 last week. That amendment is available here and makes no distinction between public and private schools. That means it applies equally to all schools - both public and private.

Looking at the current engrossed version, it states that

(1) "Institution of higher education" has the meaning assigned by Section 61.003, Education Code.

Section 61.003, Education Code defines "Institution of higher education" as

(8) "Institution of higher education" means any public technical institute, public junior college, public senior college or university, medical or dental unit, public state college, or other agency of higher education as defined in this section.

I think the key is the bolded section. Does that include "Private or independent institution of higher education" or not? I'm not sure.

hirundo82 wrote:

Jasonw560 wrote:If it's the same one as presented in SB 5, then it just bans them "on the premises of a hospital maintained or
operated by an institution of higher education". Not the medical schools. Van De Putte offered that amendment, and it was tabled in SB 5.

Yep, that's the one that's in the engrossed version of SB1581:

(e) This section does not permit a license holder to carry a
concealed handgun on or about the premises of a hospital maintained
or operated by an institution of higher education. In this
subsection, "hospital" has the meaning assigned by Section 241.003,
Health and Safety Code.

As far as I am aware, that would only apply to UTMB, MD Anderson, and UTHSCSA. Most medical schools in Texas don't actually own or operate the hospitals where there students rotate.

Don't forget TTUHSC. The Lubbock campus has the school connected to University Medical Center.

aggiedev wrote:

TrueFlog wrote:

aggiedev wrote:

baldeagle wrote:As it currently stands, campus carry will only apply to public institutions of higher education. Private schools could still ban guns.

Is there a place where we can read the "engrossed" version of SB 1581?

Not yet. Within the next few days, it should show up here under the section "Amendments". Also, I disagree with the analysis that it won't apply to private schools. We haven't seen today's amendment yet, but I expect it will be the same as the one Wentworth attached to SB 5 last week. That amendment is available here and makes no distinction between public and private schools. That means it applies equally to all schools - both public and private.

Looking at the current engrossed version, it states that

(1) "Institution of higher education" has the meaning assigned by Section 61.003, Education Code.

Section 61.003, Education Code defines "Institution of higher education" as

(8) "Institution of higher education" means any public technical institute, public junior college, public senior college or university, medical or dental unit, public state college, or other agency of higher education as defined in
this section.

I think the key is the bolded section. Does that include "Private or independent institution of higher education" or not?
I'm not sure.

Lok at section 6, where it lays out "other agency of higher education". I think I posted it last night on this thread.

Jasonw560 wrote:Lok at section 6, where it lays out "other agency of higher education". I think I posted it last night on this thread.

I must've missed that.

My apologies.

Jasonw560 wrote:

hirundo82 wrote:As far as I am aware, that would only apply to UTMB, MD Anderson, and UTHSCSA. Most medical schools in Texas don't actually own or operate the hospitals where there students rotate.

Don't forget TTUHSC. The Lubbock campus has the school connected to University Medical Center.

Yeah, it was also pointed out to me in a PM that UT-Southwestern in Dallas owns a hospital too. Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas would also qualify.

austinrealtor wrote:

(e) This section does not permit a license holder to carry a
concealed handgun on or about the premises of a hospital maintained
or operated by an institution of higher education. In this
subsection, "hospital" has the meaning assigned by Section 241.003,
Health and Safety Code.

Is this now ADDING restrictions to concealed carry? Currently a hospital would be required to give 30.06 notice to prevent concealed carry. Or is this just saying that ONLY university hospitals are now statutorily off limits (instead of the entire university premises)?

A "hospital maintained or operated by an institution of higher education" would already be off limits as a school. Most "teaching hospitals" aren't owned and operated by the medical schools with which they are affiliated, and nothing would change regarding them.

austinrealtor wrote:

hirundo82 wrote:

(e) This section does not permit a license holder to carry a
concealed handgun on or about the premises of a hospital maintained
or operated by an institution of higher education. In this
subsection, "hospital" has the meaning assigned by Section 241.003,
Health and Safety Code.

As far as I am aware, that would only apply to UTMB, MD Anderson, and UTHSCSA. Most medical schools in Texas don't actually own or operate the hospitals where there students rotate.

Is this now ADDING restrictions to concealed carry? Currently a hospital would be required to give 30.06 notice to prevent concealed carry. Or is this just saying that ONLY university hospitals are now statutorily off limits (instead of the entire university premises)?

It doesn't say this section forbids carrying at a school-owned hospital, it is clarifying that this section does not expressly permit it.

INAL, but I take this to mean that a school-owned hospital can post enforceable 30.06 signs and this statute will not render them void. If a school-operated hospital does not post 30.06 signs, it seems that licensed concealed carry would be allowed.

This legislation is adding places that cannot restrict lawful concealed carry. . . so colleges cannot post enforceable 30.06 signs.

The quoted statement seems to be a clarification that the law does not include preemption language for school-owned hospitals restricting carry.

Agree / Disagree?

fickman wrote:It doesn't say this section forbids carrying at a school-owned hospital, it is clarifying that this section does not expressly permit it.

INAL, but I take this to mean that a school-owned hospital can post enforceable 30.06 signs and this statute will not render them void. If a school-operated hospital does not post 30.06 signs, it seems that licensed concealed carry would be allowed.

This legislation is adding places that cannot restrict lawful concealed carry. . . so colleges cannot post enforceable 30.06 signs.

The quoted statement seems to be a clarification that the law does not include preemption language for school-owned hospitals restricting carry.

Agree / Disagree?

Disagree. When you read it in its full context in Penal Code §46.03, it says:

(1) it is illegal to carry on the premises of schools except
(2) it is legal on the premises of an institution of higher education if you have a Texas CHL, but
(3) a CHL does not permit you to carry a handgun on the premises of a hospital owned or operated by an institution of higher education.