TexasCHLforum.com

So is this; http://www.thunder5.com/docs1.html

Okay, darnit. Now you have me curious about this sucker. I'd never heard of it before. It'd make an interesting conversation piece...

IIRC, the way around the OAL law for the handgun is that the barrel must be rifled.

I seem to remember a smoothbore handgun that was declared unlawful or perhaps is was a smoothbore Contender barrel.

I think in the case of the Contender, an rifled attachment was added to the end of the barrel.

Will have to give Google a workout on this.

Typically verbose, but I found this ruling that a smoothbore handgun comes under the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Revenue Ruling 57-6

A rifled bore pistol or revolver of the conventional type is
not a firearm as defined in section 5848 of the Internal
Revenue Code of 1954, but a smooth bore "pistol or revolver"
is a firearm as so defined.
Revenue Ruling 54-159, C.B. 1954-1, 251, revoked.

Revenue Ruling 54-159, C.B. 1954-1, 251, holds that the
removal of the rifling from the barrel of .38 and .45 caliber
revolvers and the use of standard revolver cartridge casings, hand
loaded with shot, do not remove such weapons from the
classification of revolvers.
The Internal Revenue Service has reconsidered, for
classification purposes under the National Firearms Act (chapter 53
of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954), the status of a pistol or
revolver, designed or redesigned to fire through a smooth bore,
primarily fixed ammunition consisting of the case, primer,
propellent charge and "shot" rather than fire, through a rifled
bore, fixed ammunition consisting of the case, primer, propellent
charge and a "bullet." As a result of the comprehensive ballistics
and practical comparative tests, the weapons have been classified
as follows:
A rifled bore pistol or revolver of the conventional type
meets the basic requirements of a "small projectile weapon" as
defined in sections 179.35 and 179.37 of the Regulations related to
Machine Guns and Certain Other Firearms, even if loaded with "shot"
cartridges for the reason that it is designed most proficiently
from a ballistics standpoint when discharging a "bullet."
Accordingly, a rifled bore pistol or revolver of the conventional
type is not a firearm as defined in section 5848 of the Code.
On the other hand, a smooth bore pistol or revolver fails to
meet the basic requirements of a "small projectile weapon" even
when loaded with "bullet cartridges" for the reason that the weapon
is designed to function most proficiently from a ballistics
standpoint when discharging "shot," equalling the potential of
shotguns with comparable specifications. Therefore a smooth bore
handgun is not a "pistol or revolver" as defined in the regulatory
definitions referred to above and is not entitled to exception from
the provisions of chapter 53 of the Code. Accordingly it is held
that such a weapon is a firearm as defined in section 5848(1) and
(5) of the Code and as such is subject to the provisions of the
National Firearms Act (chapter 53 of the Code).
Revenue Ruling 54-159, C.B. 1954-1, 251, is hereby revoked.
However, under the authority of section 7805(b) of the Code, this
ruling will be applied without retroactive effect.

Skiprr wrote:

So is this; http://www.thunder5.com/docs1.html

Okay, darnit. Now you have me curious about this sucker. I'd never heard of it before. It'd make an interesting conversation piece...

Hey!! I kinda like that , I wonder what the energy in ft. lbs. is.

Taurus also has .410/.45 revolvers in their Tracker line.

http://www.taurususa.com/imagebank/guns ... ?series=41

txinvestigator wrote:Nice. How does it handle?

I shoots wonderful. I thought the accuracy would change some, but it did not. The armorer that cut the barrel accurized it and this is at 50 yards.

Mike1951 wrote:Taurus also has .410/.45 revolvers in their Tracker line.

http://www.taurususa.com/imagebank/guns ... ?series=41

Personal Defense TV had a segment on the Taurus. Dick Metcalf simulated a car jacking and defended himself with "The Judge".

Two shots at less than 2 yard with birdshot on a shoot n' see target was impressive.

The barrel is rifled and puts some spin on the shot and spreads it quickly. It also shoots .45 Long Colt with no modifications.

Taurus is calling it "The Judge" because there is a judge in Florida that puts it beside his gavel in the courtroom.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/pdtv/pdtvseason_2006/

longtooth wrote:I thought rifes & shotguns both had a minium overall length. I did think of the pistol grip only shotguns.
Now you have me really confused. I mess up so regular that is easy & I could be wrong on this too.
I thought 16 inches was the minium on rifles.
Come on txi we need your help again.
KB, what say ye.

My intent is to never confuse...

No really!

"Eh, em deh Leh!"
~Judge Dredd

I am the Law

txinvestigator wrote:Texas Penal Code


46.01
(10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel
length of less than 16 inches or a shotgun with a barrel length of
less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle if, as
altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

16 inch barrel rifle
18 shotgun barrel

26 inch overall for each.

Better break out muh tape measure...

casselthief wrote:

"Eh, em deh Leh!"
~Judge Dredd

I am the Law

This gives me an idea for halloween next year...

When Thompson/Center first introduced their Contender in .45/.410, it was basically a .45 Long Colt with a chamber deep enough to accept a .410 shotshell. The barrel was RIFLED, so it was not considered a short-barreled shotgun. The rifling added spin to the shot charge, so a screw-on choke was added with straight grooves which compressed the shot charge and arrested the spin, providing improved patterns.

Other than a muzzle loader, a smoothbore handgun would be regulated just the same way as a sawed-off shotgun, which is why you don't see "pistols" like the old Ithaca Auto-Burglar for sale at Academy. Other shotshell-chambering handguns all have rifled barrels.

If your're planning on cutting down a shotgun, note that the BATmen have some interesting policies on measuring barrel length - they go from the breech face to the muzzle. In their eyes, any extension of the barrel to the rear of the breech face doesn't count when measuring for legal length. (Not the law, but their creative interpretation of it. Fighting it will suck up lots of $$$ in court.)

HankB wrote:When Thompson/Center first introduced their Contender in .45/.410, it was basically a .45 Long Colt with a chamber deep enough to accept a .410 shotshell. The barrel was RIFLED, so it was not considered a short-barreled shotgun. The rifling added spin to the shot charge, so a screw-on choke was added with straight grooves which compressed the shot charge and arrested the spin, providing improved patterns.

Other than a muzzle loader, a smoothbore handgun would be regulated just the same way as a sawed-off shotgun, which is why you don't see "pistols" like the old Ithaca Auto-Burglar for sale at Academy. Other shotshell-chambering handguns all have rifled barrels.

If your're planning on cutting down a shotgun, note that the BATmen have some interesting policies on measuring barrel length - they go from the breech face to the muzzle. In their eyes, any extension of the barrel to the rear of the breech face doesn't count when measuring for legal length. (Not the law, but their creative interpretation of it. Fighting it will suck up lots of $$$ in court.)

This is all reference federal law, right?

HankB wrote:When Thompson/Center first introduced their Contender in .45/.410, it was basically a .45 Long Colt with a chamber deep enough to accept a .410 shotshell. The barrel was RIFLED, so it was not considered a short-barreled shotgun. The rifling added spin to the shot charge, so a screw-on choke was added with straight grooves which compressed the shot charge and arrested the spin, providing improved patterns.

Thanks for correcting me on the Contender. At this point, I remembered the addition to the barrel but didn't accurately remember why.

txinvestigator wrote:This is all reference federal law, right?

The information I posted earlier was an IRS ruling that upheld the inclusion of smoothbore handguns in the NFA.

The following link is to an BATFE publication identifying NFA weapons.

See pages 8-9 for smoothbore handguns.

Of course, if you're wanting the actual code, I'll have to keep looking.

http://www.atf.gov/docs/Identification_ ... _print.pdf

I found the NFA in the Code of Federal Regulations.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/multidb.cgi

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 479--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS

Subpart A--Scope of Regulations
...........................

Subpart B--Definitions

Sec. 479.11 Meaning of terms.

..............Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.............

.............Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore..........