TexasCHLforum.com

kauboy wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

kauboy wrote:

Freedom4All wrote:

kauboy wrote:Ha ha, what fools they are. If you see this sign, walk proudly by it. The only two posted signs that you have to worry about being enforcable to a CHL holder is the 30.06 sign and the "51%" sign. Other than that, carry with confidence.

Just to nit-pick...

The 51% sign itself does not have the force of law that a sign meeting 30.06 requirements does. If an establishment generates 51% of its income from on premises consumption of alchohol then it is off limits while packing, regardless of the 51% sign being posted or not. It is not illegal to enter an establishment posting a 51% sign, while packing, if that establishment does not in fact generate 51% of its income from on premises consumption of alchohol (assuming they do not have a 30.06 sign posted as well).

Actually, thats not entirely true. A Hospital may post a "51%" sign and leave off the red "51" and that is enough notice to say you can't carry there. I know it sounds dumb, but trust me, its in the law.

No, that is not true. Hospitals, per Texas Penal Code 46.035 are only prohibited if they post a 30.06 sign.

Pardon me if I don't "trust you" but please show me the law that prohibits me from carrying where a hospital posts a sign other than 30.06.

Gladly

GOVERNMENT CODE
SUBTITLE B. LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PUBLIC PROTECTION
CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS
SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS AND ADMINISTRATION
§ 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A
business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28,
32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent
or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code,
shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises
a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety
Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and
Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the
hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with
the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that
the sign include on its face the number "51".
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must
give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a
person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun[0] on the
premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block
letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the
number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height.
The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible
to the public.
(d) A business that has a permit or license issued under the
Alcoholic Beverage Code and that is not required to display a sign
under this section may be required to display a sign under Section
11.041 or 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code.
(e) This section does not apply to a business that has a food
and beverage certificate issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code.

Don't even ask me why. It's ludicrous to me too.
How would you interpret that?

If the "51%" restricts us due to alcohol sales, why is it even possible to use the same verbiage at a hospital?

Show me there where it says you cannot carry into a hospital that posts a sign. The only prohibitions for CHL holders are in the penal code. There is no prohibition for you carrying into the hospital with such a sign, nor is there any penalty if you do.

Its just like the 51% sign for a bar. The sign, in an of itself, means nothing to you.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that to say that a hospital can post a 51 sign, which will have the same meaning as a 30.06, or a 51% sign.
and those penalties are clearly labeled.

once again, that's just how I was seeing that. I don't speaka the legalese too good.

casselthief wrote:correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that to say that a hospital can post a 51 sign, which will have the same meaning as a 30.06, or a 51% sign.
and those penalties are clearly labeled.

once again, that's just how I was seeing that. I don't speaka the legalese too good.

No, the govt code states that a hospital must post a 51% sign WITHOUT the 51% in red. However, it holds ZERO FORCE over you, the CHL holder.

The only prohibitions that have penalities attached are in the penal code sections 46.03 and 46.035.

Nowhere in those sections is ANY 51 or 51% sign listed.

so still just the 51% (bars, clubs, etc) and the 30.06
as far as signs go.

thanks for the clarification

Then why are they required to post it? The wording "shall" instead of "should" means that it must be done. It would seem to be a futile law if it and the sign were designed specifically with CHL holders in mind.

If the purpose of the "51%" sign is only to bring to your attention that the establishment obtains 51% or more sales through alcohol, then why would a hospital need an sign with similar wording. The "51%" is done as a service, since we are legally supposed to know, regardless of a sign being present or not. But this makes no sense for a hospital. So whats the purpose?

kauboy wrote:Then why are they required to post it? The wording "shall" instead of "should" means that it must be done. It would seem to be a futile law if it and the sign were designed specifically with CHL holders in mind.

If the purpose of the "51%" sign is only to bring to your attention that the establishment obtains 51% or more sales through alcohol, then why would a hospital need an sign with similar wording. The "51%" is done as a service, since we are legally supposed to know, regardless of a sign being present or not. But this makes no sense for a hospital. So whats the purpose?

I think because hospitals were off limits period, so the legislators required some sort of notice. However, they are only off limits now if they post a 30.06, so the 51 sign is not needed and moot.

txinvestigator wrote:

kauboy wrote:Then why are they required to post it? The wording "shall" instead of "should" means that it must be done. It would seem to be a futile law if it and the sign were designed specifically with CHL holders in mind.

If the purpose of the "51%" sign is only to bring to your attention that the establishment obtains 51% or more sales through alcohol, then why would a hospital need an sign with similar wording. The "51%" is done as a service, since we are legally supposed to know, regardless of a sign being present or not. But this makes no sense for a hospital. So whats the purpose?

I think because hospitals were off limits period, so the legislators required some sort of notice. However, they are only off limits now if they post a 30.06, so the 51 sign is not needed and moot.

Imagine that. A useless law
Thanks for the clarification