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Keith- Here is a little something by Gunblast that I thought was informative if you have not seen it yet. http://www.gunblast.com/10mm.htm The only problem I have with it is that he shows Gold dot loads (might be old loads he had on hand) and you can't get them anymore as far as I know from double tap. His results were better then ours. I wonder if his and DT chronograph are better (more accurate) chronographs then what most of us are using at home. We were just using one of those chronograph brand ones that cost a little over 100 bucks. Others seem to get very close to DT advertised velocity. I do have to admit that some of the loads we tested were within 50fps of what they advertise so it has got me wondering why some are off by very little and others are off by as much as 200fps on some peoples chronographs. Either way it’s still hot stuff and its cheaper then Buffalo bore and Corbon.

CC Italian wrote:Thanks, I already know about the DT not being what they advertise. I don't like the Buffalo bore either because while the 180 grain is fast and delivers the fps as advertised they use the cheaper Montana gold bullets instead of the gold dots like the always used to. That and the buffalo bore is way overpriced! My friend has a chronograph and the DT are usually 100-150fps less then advertised but that is still way faster then Corbon(way overpriced as well and use nosler on most loads) or any .40 S&W load. My biggest disappointment is with the quality of bullets most are using. They are all not using gold dots and xtps. These are the two best for 10mm and they are all being replaced by Montana golds, nosler etc. Noslers are ok but Montana golds are cheap for hollowpoints and regularly just don't expand and act like FMJ. Georgia arms offers a uni-core Speer bullet which is very good but they are usually out and Reeds ammo and research offers gold dots but there is a huge waiting list. The one company that exceeds the faster fps is the factory Hornady xtp bullets from Hornady. My friend chronographed as much as 50fps higher then factory and all ran faster then advertised by at least 20fps. Good stuff.

And that is why I started loading my own 10mm 200 grain Hornady XTP loads.

I haven't done any personal comparisons between DT and Buffalo Bore but I do know that the DT 200 grain XTP loads I have used flat knock a pig on his behind.

Great info thanks! I use the Hornady XTP also 180' grain and I agree it's very accurate to claimed velocities. I respect that. I will not buy anything but Hornady or BB for self def because makes ms feel like the other company's are not being true to there customers.

Keith wrote:Great info thanks! I use the Hornady XTP also 180' grain and I agree it's very accurate to claimed velocities. I respect that. I will not buy anything but Hornady or BB for self def because makes ms feel like the other company's are not being true to there customers.

Keith,

When you say Hornady loads, I hope you aren't buying Hornady ammo for the 10mm because it is extremely neutered. I looked at some of the critical defense 10mm ammo at Cabelas and it was only 50 fps faster than the same load in 40 S&W. I don't know why it's so hard to find full power factory loaded 10mm ammo.

Yes it is very hard to find full-power 10mm ammo. When I was seriously contemplating a Glock 20 a few years back, CorBon was the only one I found that still had almost-full-power 10mm. Everyone else had .40 S&W in long casings.

The .40 ruined the 10mm.

Hornadys are not that bad at all! There 180 grain runs the same from my Glock 20 as the Wincehster silvertips (the silvertips don't run 1290fps, more like 1160-1220fps. The 155grainxtp says 1265 but it ran 1325 out of my gun. Compare Corbons 150jhp runs 1325 and uses a nosler bullet. Corbon is not really hot in 10mm at all except for their hunting load in 180 grain. The 180 grain bonded soft point is serious stuff and is probably the best 180 grain hunting load for deep penetration. Take their 165 grain at 1250fps and then think about the Hornady 180grain xtp running 1180. That is pretty close when you factor in the grains. Also, like I said the quality of the hollowpoint used is a bigger factor to me then 100fps gain.

As for the .40 S&W 180 grains running 1100. Read up on BB about them they are +P and it says what not to run them in. Those 20 +P BB rounds might run 1100 in a .40 S&W that can handle it but they also cost $26 for a box of 20. Hornady 180xtp will run 1180-1200 in a stock Glock 20 and cost you 15-17 bucks. My point is that pushing the .40 S&W to even lite 10mm speeds is expensive unless you reload. Either way any 180 grain that runs 1200fps out of a 4.6 in barrel is fine by me. They only 10mm load that is a joke is the Federal loads. They are weak for 10mm and hot for .40S&W.

The hottest 10mm your going to find is DT and BB and a handful of smaller companies like Reeds. If you have a fully supported barrel in 10mm you can run these guys. Expensive but this is the serious 10mm stuff but are P+ rated. http://www.eliteammunition.net/loaded_ammunition.html http://www.swampfoxgunworks.com/swampfo ... hp?cat=249

rubiconjp wrote:Yes it is very hard to find full-power 10mm ammo. When I was seriously contemplating a Glock 20 a few years back, CorBon was the only one I found that still had almost-full-power 10mm. Everyone else had .40 S&W in long casings.

The .40 ruined the 10mm.

Marty, Crossfire's husband, once let me shoot a .40 cal Glock and a 10mm Glock, side by side. I owned a .40 cal USP Compact at the time, and had it there at the range that day, but shooting both Glocks side by side gave me a better evaluation of the two cartridges. Both guns were shooting Marty's handloads, and I don't remember the particular load data, except that both loads were usuing what appeared to be a Gold Dot bullet of unknown weight. But, he assured me that the 10mm cartridges were not "down-loaded," and while they weren't loaded to the SAAMI max, neither were they softened up. For those of you who don't know Marty, he runs the reloading department at Cabela's in Fort Worth.

I remember being pretty impressed with it—not because it had a lot of stank on it, but because it seemed to me to be very much like shooting .45 ACP. I expected a real fire-breather with very stout recoil, and what I got was a big pussycat. A pussycat with very large teeth and claws. If it weren't for ammo availability, I would possibly interested in a 10mm pistol. I've already started experimenting with reloading .45 ACP, and I will be reloading 9mm, .44 mag, and .357/.38 Special once I get up to speed; but I would like my pistol calibers to also be easily available commercially, just as a backup. It seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that 10mm and .357 Sig are both good rounds that are not as easily available, and generally cost more, than other self-defense calibers.

But, I think a 10mm pistol is probably going to be in my future. Just not the immediate future.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

rubiconjp wrote:Yes it is very hard to find full-power 10mm ammo. When I was seriously contemplating a Glock 20 a few years back, CorBon was the only one I found that still had almost-full-power 10mm. Everyone else had .40 S&W in long casings.

The .40 ruined the 10mm.

Marty, Crossfire's husband, once let me shoot a .40 cal Glock and a 10mm Glock, side by side. I owned a .40 cal USP Compact at the time, and had it there at the range that day, but shooting both Glocks side by side gave me a better evaluation of the two cartridges. Both guns were shooting Marty's handloads, and I don't remember the particular load data, except that both loads were usuing what appeared to be a Gold Dot bullet of unknown weight. But, he assured me that the 10mm cartridges were not "down-loaded," and while they weren't loaded to the SAAMI max, neither were they softened up. For those of you who don't know Marty, he runs the reloading department at Cabela's in Fort Worth.

I remember being pretty impressed with it—not because it had a lot of stank on it, but because it seemed to me to be very much like shooting .45 ACP. I expected a real fire-breather with very stout recoil, and what I got was a big pussycat. A pussycat with very large teeth and claws. If it weren't for ammo availability, I would possibly interested in a 10mm pistol. I've already started experimenting with reloading .45 ACP, and I will be reloading 9mm, .44 mag, and .357/.38 Special once I get up to speed; but I would like my pistol calibers to also be easily available commercially, just as a backup. It seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that 10mm and .357 Sig are both good rounds that are not as easily available, and generally cost more, than other self-defense calibers.

But, I think a 10mm pistol is probably going to be in my future. Just not the immediate future.

The Glock 20 (assuming that's what you shot) does a very good job of absorbing the recoil of the 10mm. My Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm is a little less pleasant to shoot than my Glock 20 and even 29.

I never let ammo availability sway my decision on whether or not to purchase a firearm whether it be "because I want one" or because it is the best tool for the job. Those carry much more weight in my decision than ammo availability. You just have to me more prudent when stocking up or practicing.

Finally got to take it to the range today. It sure seems a little louder? The grouping is amazing! I was doing 2 1/2 inch groups at 15 yards. I don't know why it groups better (before 3-5inch) because nothing has changed with the sight radius? Maybe the extra weight of the barrel helps with recoil? Not sure but it ran great! My P95 on the other hand had a few problems with some 147 grain Federal HST LE +P rounds. It would not eject the fired casing and then the mag would try to load the next round in the chamber. I didn't have enough time or ammo to trouble shoot it at the range. It ran a whole mag of Winchester white box with no problem and then I got to the Federal and it started hanging up, but that was a different mag. I will have to see when I come back from my trip if it is the ammo, mag. or possibly shooter(me).

CC Italian wrote:Hornadys are not that bad at all! There 180 grain runs the same from my Glock 20 as the Wincehster silvertips (the silvertips don't run 1290fps, more like 1160-1220fps. The 155grainxtp says 1265 but it ran 1325 out of my gun. Compare Corbons 150jhp runs 1325 and uses a nosler bullet. Corbon is not really hot in 10mm at all except for their hunting load in 180 grain. The 180 grain bonded soft point is serious stuff and is probably the best 180 grain hunting load for deep penetration. Take their 165 grain at 1250fps and then think about the Hornady 180grain xtp running 1180. That is pretty close when you factor in the grains. Also, like I said the quality of the hollowpoint used is a bigger factor to me then 100fps gain.

As for the .40 S&W 180 grains running 1100. Read up on BB about them they are +P and it says what not to run them in. Those 20 +P BB rounds might run 1100 in a .40 S&W that can handle it but they also cost $26 for a box of 20. Hornady 180xtp will run 1180-1200 in a stock Glock 20 and cost you 15-17 bucks. My point is that pushing the .40 S&W to even lite 10mm speeds is expensive unless you reload. Either way any 180 grain that runs 1200fps out of a 4.6 in barrel is fine by me. They only 10mm load that is a joke is the Federal loads. They are weak for 10mm and hot for .40S&W.

The hottest 10mm your going to find is DT and BB and a handful of smaller companies like Reeds. If you have a fully supported barrel in 10mm you can run these guys. Expensive but this is the serious 10mm stuff but are P+ rated. http://www.eliteammunition.net/loaded_ammunition.html http://www.swampfoxgunworks.com/swampfo ... hp?cat=249

The ballistics on those sights look good. Too bad neither one of them have any in stock.

I used to open-carry a .41 magnum when backpacking bear country in New Mexico. Nearly the punch of the .44 without the wrist-breaking recoil. About the same as shooting a .357.

At the time (was over 20 years ago), the S&W Model 57 was the issue duty weapon for New Mexico Game Wardens.

Just got back from vacation today. All went well. I saw many elk, fox, mountain goat and a ton of fat little chipmunks.

CC Italian wrote:Just got back from vacation today. All went well. I saw many elk, fox, mountain goat and a ton of fat little chipmunks.

Sounds like you had a good time. Glad you didn't run into a troupe of ravenous raccoons, I could tell you some things about those little masked bandits.