Following a Robber

[Stupid]

This is sad. Is there anything we can do to help the family though?

[Jungle Work]

Gun Manners:

#1 Never attend a gunfight without a gun.

#2 Never attend a gunfight without a firearm in your hands.

Jungle Work

[John R. Fuller]

Everyone who said I would engage this robber in a car chase read further; What if Mr. Jackson managed to draw his weapon in time? He would be shooting from the seat of his vehicle. Next ponder this; what will be the main thing asked in court later?

Prosecutor: Mr. Jackson why did you shoot this stellar citizen gone bad?

Mr. Jackson: Sir, that man stopped suddenly in front of me and pointed a pistol at me.

Prosecutor: Mr. Jackson why were you following this man?

Mr. Jackson: I was following in an attempt to apprehend the crimminal.

Prosecutor: Are you a Law Enforcement Officer?

Mr. Jackson: No

Prosecutor: Then I summurize that you had no duty to chase this man, and you intentionally put yourself into a situation that resulted in deadly force. I am asking that the court add the additional charge of murder to Mr. Jackson's bill.

If you or someone else is not in danger of losing their life or a loved one, then let the thug go. We are Law Enforcement. The only time I deem it worthy to chase is if that individual has a member of my family kidnapped or it is a terrorist that I know for sure is and am the last thing standing between them and their objective.

[carlson1]

Prosecutor: Mr. Jackson why were you following this man?

Mr. Jackson: I was following in an attempt to apprehend the crimminal.

I do not believe any one would follow to "apprehend." Follow for LP number or discription maybe, but never to "apprehend."

[yerasimos]

Since this is still relatively fresh, here is some additional followup on the Steven Jackson tragedy:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 01354.html

I found this near the bottom:

Jackson, who was a hunter and licensed to carry a concealed weapon, had a pistol under the seat of his car that was never touched during the confrontation, investigators reported Wednesday.

Somehow the robber managed to slam on the brakes and run back and fire shots through Jackson's open passenger-door window before he could arm himself, investigators said.

One of my favorite authors has a simple test of mindset and readiness: the Manson gang is breaking down your front door--can you get to your gun in two seconds? For me, this tragedy reinforces the need to hold to the same standard when seated in a car.

[KRM45]

Prosecutor: Mr. Jackson why were you following this man?

Mr. Jackson: I was following in an attempt to apprehend the crimminal.

Prosecutor: Are you a Law Enforcement Officer?

Mr. Jackson: No

Mr Jackson: No sir, however under Texas Code of Criminal Proceedure, Article 14.01 "A peace officer or any other person, may without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is classed as a felony...

[John R. Fuller]

As much as it would be good to be able to chase crimminals and other wrong doers, the CHL was never meant to be a hunting permit for Felons in Action. The CHL is only their for our immediate self defense and for the defense of third parties. In this particular incident, the robber ceased to be a threat to life when he fled the scene.

Following the robber puts us in a bad legal place whether we are in Florida or Texas regardless of the stand your ground laws. I must repeat the consequences had this CHL holder lived.

1. Possible prosecution

2. Incurring legal and medical expenses that will not be covered by insurance.

3. Being sued by the crimminal or it's family after the trial.

4. Getting killed while chasing someone to recover a third person's property that was not taken under cover of darkness.

It is my opinion that it is best not to pursue crimminals after they cease to be a threat. The only exception to this is that they have a loved one taken hostage or you know for sure that they are now in route to kill someone with credible information.

[KRM45]

the robber ceased to be a threat to life when he fled the scene.

I have no desire to argue the point, however I feel compelled to point out the error in this particular statement. The outcome of the situation proves that the man was still a threat to life...

[John R. Fuller]

I is one thing to be shot during or right after the crime while the crimminal is still there. The man would be alive today if he did not follow that crimminal.

The crimminal shot the concerned citizen after a brief car pursuit. I stand behind what I wrote earlier because we know that the crimminal was NOT A THREAT after the robbery. Chasing him caused him to act out in a way that killed this man.

There is absolutely no excuse for this crimminal in robbing the gas station or shooting the concerned citizen. I is however somewhat germain to this conversation that we as CHL holders should do all in our power to avoid this type of problem.

So I will reiterate my position. Unless there is a direct threat to life, my pistol will stay holstered, and I will not pursue a fleeing crimminal if he she or it is no longer a threat. Yes there are laws that allow citizens to arrest those that are known to the citizen as a crimminal just after the commission of a Felony. I look at this law in the same way I do about the law that allows the use of deadly force after dark protecting property. Just because the law makes it legal does not make the action right or performed with good sense.

[stroo]

Grabbing his pistol from under his seat while disoriented from the collision would be difficult. Sounds like he may have been following the robber too closely as well. I carry my car gun in a wilderness safepacker holster attached to the seat belt. Not sure I would be able to get it out after a car crash but it certainly would be easier than getting it from under the seat.

This is a tragedy for a brave man and his family. Hopefully we can learn lessons from him.

[Skiprr]

From this morning's Houston Chronicle: "Humble police have new clues in the case of murder victim Steven Jackson."

Including a decent photo from a security camera taken at a store the suspect robbed eight days earlier.

[Paladin]

One of my favorite authors has a simple test of mindset and readiness: the Manson gang is breaking down your front door--can you get to your gun in two seconds? For me, this tragedy reinforces the need to hold to the same standard when seated in a car.

+1 to that

[Skiprr]

An arrest has been made in this case.

Keith Hines, 40, was taken into custody Wednesay. He is being held without bond. Hines had been released from prison in 2003 and was to be on parole until 2034.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4418651.html

[stevie_d_64]

An arrest has been made in this case.

Keith Hines, 40, was taken into custody Wednesay. He is being held without bond. Hines had been released from prison in 2003 and was to be on parole until 2034.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4418651.html

Flippin' great news!!!

I knew it was only a matter of time before they caught up with this slime...As soon as we heard this morning that they had some video on whom they classified as that nemesis "person of interest"...That was their guy...

I bet they had this guy tagged by lunch today!!!

The question now is...

Will they classify this murder as a capital crime???