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Mr.ViperBoa wrote:The way I have always thought of it 'in view of the public" should mean outside where the public is before going in. I guess I am weird that way

apostate wrote: Interestingly, I know a 51% establishment that posts the 51% sign behind the bar. Does that mean it's legal to carry there, since TPC 46.035(k) has a defense if "not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code."

C-dub wrote:

apostate wrote: Interestingly, I know a 51% establishment that posts the 51% sign behind the bar. Does that mean it's legal to carry there, since TPC 46.035(k) has a defense if "not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code."

No. Whether there is a sign posted or not it is still illegal. This part is different than 30.06 in that if there is no 30.06 sign in a place not otherwise prohibited it is not illegal. Not having a 51% sign or not having one in a conspicuous place can only be a defense to prosecution.

apostate wrote:

C-dub wrote:

apostate wrote: Interestingly, I know a 51% establishment that posts the 51% sign behind the bar. Does that mean it's legal to carry there, since TPC 46.035(k) has a defense if "not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code."

No. Whether there is a sign posted or not it is still illegal. This part is different than 30.06 in that if there is no 30.06 sign in a place not otherwise prohibited it is not illegal. Not having a 51% sign or not having one in a conspicuous place can only be a defense to prosecution.

30.05(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

Kythas wrote:It's been stated in previous threads that the onus is on the CHL holder to know if a place is 51% or not. Even if they have wrongly posted the blue unlicensed possession sign but are, in fact, 51%, a CHL holder would be in trouble carrying there.

GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).

(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Kythas wrote:That's for criminal trespass

apostate wrote:

Kythas wrote:That's for criminal trespass

Precisely! It's a "defense to prosecution" if you walk past a gunbuster sign or enter a 51% establishment that's not properly posted.

C-dub wrote:Yup. Someone that has done this has broken the law. They are no longer innocent until proven guilty, they've already been proven guilty. It is now up to them to prove the "defense to prosecution" part that the sign was either improperly posted or not posted at all.

tbrown wrote:

C-dub wrote:Yup. Someone that has done this has broken the law. They are no longer innocent until proven guilty, they've already been proven guilty. It is now up to them to prove the "defense to prosecution" part that the sign was either improperly posted or not posted at all.

Proven guilty by who? And of what? What's the crime if the sign is not compliant or not posted where required?

C-dub wrote:

tbrown wrote:Proven guilty by who? And of what? What's the crime if the sign is not compliant or not posted where required?

An establishment that can legally post a red 51% sign does not require a sign to be off limits. That's a fact. It is not like WalMart, that must post a 30.06 sign to be off limits. Not having a 51% sign properly displayed is a defense to prosecution. This means that if you were carrying and were arrested for it you will have to prove that the sign was not posted or not posted properly as a defense to prosecution.

tbrown wrote:

C-dub wrote:

tbrown wrote:Proven guilty by who? And of what? What's the crime if the sign is not compliant or not posted where required?

An establishment that can legally post a red 51% sign does not require a sign to be off limits. That's a fact. It is not like WalMart, that must post a 30.06 sign to be off limits. Not having a 51% sign properly displayed is a defense to prosecution. This means that if you were carrying and were arrested for it you will have to prove that the sign was not posted or not posted properly as a defense to prosecution.

If a company posts a gunbuster sign or some other sign prohibiting guns, carrying past the sign is criminal trespass. Having a CHL for the category handgun you're carrying is a defense to prosecution.

C-dub wrote:A CHL walking past a gunbuster sign is nothing.

tbrown wrote:

C-dub wrote:A CHL walking past a gunbuster sign is nothing.

If so, then a CHL walking into a bar that's not properly posted is also nothing.

A defense to prosecution is a defense to prosecution is a defense to prosecution.