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Jumping Frog wrote:Personally, I am carrying Winchester Ranger RA45TP, a 230 gr +P. I also fired 150 rounds of that ammo through my 1911 before using it for EDC.

My choice of ammo, as well.

Any modern .45 ACP defensive round will do the job, but I prefer the RA45TP. It's a full 230 grains; it's a proven design with years of history; and its muzzle velocity out of a five-inch barrel is 990 fps, compared to a basic Remington 230 gr. FMJ at 835 fps, or Federal HydraShok 230 gr. JHP at 850 fps.

Yes, IMHO, an extra 15% muzzle velocity with a 230-grain handgun bullet does make a difference.

With the shorter barrel of the 45c, I'd stick with either regular loaded 185gr or +P with the heavier bullet. I had about a 40 minute conversation with Teddy Jacobson about round velocity of shorter barreled 45s. He was especially concerned with running a 230 gr standard load in a 3" 1911.

gigag04 wrote:I had about a 40 minute conversation with Teddy Jacobson about round velocity of shorter barreled 45s. He was especially concerned with running a 230 gr standard load in a 3" 1911.

Wow!

Can you elaborate?

Skiprr wrote:

gigag04 wrote:I had about a 40 minute conversation with Teddy Jacobson about round velocity of shorter barreled 45s. He was especially concerned with running a 230 gr standard load in a 3" 1911.

Wow!

Can you elaborate?

He was concerned with STD 230gr soup cans not getting up to a proper stopping power velocity. He said getting a lighter bullet helps, and recommended not going higher than 200gr for an officer patterned 1911. The physics behind what he is saying is sound, and less V will mean less E. I haven't gotten behind a chrony yet.

...Gold Dot...230 gr. JHP+P or regular velocity...slow and heavy .45 slugs kiss like Kate...lighter and faster don't interest this old man...

gigag04 wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

gigag04 wrote:I had about a 40 minute conversation with Teddy Jacobson about round velocity of shorter barreled 45s. He was especially concerned with running a 230 gr standard load in a 3" 1911.

Wow!

Can you elaborate?

He was concerned with STD 230gr soup cans not getting up to a proper stopping power velocity. He said getting a lighter bullet helps, and recommended not going higher than 200gr for an officer patterned 1911. The physics behind what he is saying is sound, and less V will mean less E. I haven't gotten behind a chrony yet.

The M&P 45c has 4" barrel and there seems to be no data on that. Its either 3" or 5" for all the published data I could find.

I posted a summary of a post that I read on the Calccw forum about a range employee having to shoot a nutjob that took the range staff hostage. He was using a Glock30 and Hydrashoks (didn't specify the exact load). He stated that of the 3 rounds that hit, not one them expanded!!!...

My original thought was to carry lighter bullets that went faster but now I'm thinking I should be carrying heavier bullets that go just as fast...

...though he said they didn't expand...what was the effect on the perp, and where did they strike him? had they passed through enough clothing to fill the HP?

I should see if I can find the post again but I think it was in a members only section.

One shot was center of the right pectoral and went through and through and the second traveled from wrist to elbow and opened up his forearm. The perp was alive and kicking but voluntarily gave up the fight since he had dropped his gun and the range employee now had the drop on him. Both bullets were recovered from the nearby pavement. They had not expanded and had behaved like ball ammo. He stated he was using HydraShoks. No info about clothing clogging the cavity but being that this was in Santa Clarita in California I doubt he was wearing more than a Tshirt. Santa Clarita is a bit warm even in winter.

The incident happened quite a few years ago and the OP from Calccw was responding to a "does anyone remember?" post about the incident.

...thanks for the details you could find...

So I went to the market hall gun show this weekend and found some Ranger 230gr +P's and tried them out this morning.

Started by shooting off my year old 185gr Hornady Critical Defence then switched to the Ranger so I would have a pretty good comparison.

Much to my surprise I found the Rangers much more pleasant to shoot. For lack of a better description they were quicker (well duh) but not really more forceful. They had a snappy feel compared to the Hornady's and the Federal 230gr ball I also shot. The event of the round going off felt much quicker and I actually felt like I could get back on target quicker too. I love them and am not feeling any of the dire wrist breaking forces I was warned about.

The quicker snap of the Ranger +p's felt better and made things more managable for me than the stout shove of other rounds I've fired...YMMV