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MasterOfNone wrote:

AEA wrote:Armed robbery is a FELONY. A Felony in progress justifies using deadly force to stop the threat. You have to decide on your own if you are willing and capable of stopping the threat IN PROGRESS. If you do, successfully, you will face no charges.

That's a dangerous oversimplification. A felony does not automatically justify deadly force. There are many felony offenses that do not.
However, aggravated robbery, which this scenario is, is a justification for deadly force.

I understand you point and agree. However, the red portion you highlighted was intended for the circumstance at hand and not to be taken out of context. It was a Armed Robbery. It was justifiable to shoot to stop the THREAT. Just what I said.

My goal is to get home safe every night... no bat man here. That being said, in 1993 my uncle was killed while standing at counter during robbery, video showed that he made no moves to do anything. So that's on my mind also. But killing a 19 year old kid that is making a stupid mistake is not something I would like to do either.

But if it has to be done, better that I make it home to family.
Since the time to decide to draw or not would be a split second one, I hope I never have to make that choice.
But whatever it take for me to be the one going home, I will do.

Mrcoffee wrote:My goal is to get home safe every night... no bat man here. That being said, in 1993 my uncle was killed while standing at counter during robbery, video showed that he made no moves to do anything. So that's on my mind also. But killing a 19 year old kid that is making a stupid mistake is not something I would like to do either.

But if it has to be done, better that I make it home to family.
Since the time to decide to draw or not would be a split second one, I hope I never have to make that choice.
But whatever it take for me to be the one going home, I will do.

In what sense is a guy robbing someone at gunpoint is making a "stupid mistake," and what does that have to do with how anyone should react? It sounds like you're saying it's just a kid doing something dumb, so he shouldn't have to suffer the same consequences for his actions, as say, someone who is 25 or 30. It seems to me a 19 year old is perfectly capable of understanding the consequences of armed robbery and has made a choice to rob people instead of any number of other choices he could make.

...at 17, you can sign your life away in Uncle Sam's armed forces...at 17 you can go to big jail...you're certainly not a child anymore and get NO SLACK for your actions in crime...

From what I see these days, teens dont seem to think about the results of their actions. They seem to live in the moment and dont think about the future.

No excuse for a crime, but when I think about my childhood, things we did then would get us in trouble these days.
In small towns things were different as a kid.... so maybe I have a little different perspective than city folks. Hard to accept that some kids are just evil, not just stupid.

Either way..... I will do what has to be done to get home safe... be it duck and cover, run, or duck-cover-run-shoot....

speedsix wrote:...the CHL doesn't make a man a man...or not...you don't license what makes a man...wise, foolish, brave, or not...it's just a piece of paper that makes it legal to carry a gun...what a man decides to do...or not do...doesn't need anyone's approval...

Well stated!

But killing a 19 year old kid that is making a stupid mistake is not something I would like to do either

To arm yourself, select an establishment to rob, to aim a deadly weapon at another human being, threatening to end their life over maybe $200-$300 dollars that you have made a choice NOT to work for but to take from another with the threat of death is NOT a "mistake" Those are all concious choices that resulted in the action.

I don't EVER want to have to make that decision but in the situation, I see it no differently than if he were pointing that weapon at my wife, daughter,mother, sister, brother, father or son because the person behind the counter is one or more of those to somebody. They are just there doing their job, trying to earn an honest living to support themself and their family. If I hesitate and he shoots the innocent, if he shoots the man or woman, I failed in my duty as a citizen, a neighbor and as a human being, to defend an innocent person from harm. It would be no different than watching someone bleed out even though I carry a Combat Application Tourniquet on me.

No, I am no "batman". I have no aspirations to be a "batman" but I do think that it is a civic duty to help our fellow man/woman if we possibly can.

What would you want me to do if it was your wife, husband, etc.?

....ooooooooooooooh, do I LOVE that punchline!!!!!! Kinda makes it all warm and personal

ArmyStrong1969, well put and welcome to the Forum!

ArmyStrong1969 wrote:

But killing a 19 year old kid that is making a stupid mistake is not something I would like to do either

To arm yourself, select an establishment to rob, to aim a deadly weapon at another human being, threatening to end their life over maybe $200-$300 dollars that you have made a choice NOT to work for but to take from another with the threat of death is NOT a "mistake" Those are all concious choices that resulted in the action.

I don't EVER want to have to make that decision but in the situation, I see it no differently than if he were pointing that weapon at my wife, daughter,mother, sister, brother, father or son because the person behind the counter is one or more of those to somebody. They are just there doing their job, trying to earn an honest living to support themself and their family. If I hesitate and he shoots the innocent, if he shoots the man or woman, I failed in my duty as a citizen, a neighbor and as a human being, to defend an innocent person from harm. It would be no different than watching someone bleed out even though I carry a Combat Application Tourniquet on me.

No, I am no "batman". I have no aspirations to be a "batman" but I do think that it is a civic duty to help our fellow man/woman if we possibly can.

What would you want me to do if it was your wife, husband, etc.?

If I was personally threatened I would defend myself. Leave the rest for LEO's

If anyone is still reading this, I'll add my 2 cents...
A 'stupid mistake' does not justify the use of deadly force. If you see the act as a 'stupid mistake', DO NOT engage. As mere mortals, NOT batmen (nor wonder women ;), we can not intend to wound by shooting for the gun shoulder. If you are not committed to the use of deadly force, DO NOT engage. If you aim center mass, and happen to hit the shoulder, then maybe everybody goes away breathing. I'm sure your resolve would be strong in the face of a direct threat to you or your family, and it is only natural to have some trepidation when it involves third parties, but sometimes it is better to make yourself a valuable witness, and not a possible victim or perp. Hopefully that is a decision we'll never have to make, but if that time comes we'll be wiser for the time spent here.

Based on what little info is given, I would not engage for several reasons.

First and foremost my firearm is for MY protection.
Second and equally important is that I want to go home as alive and unscathed as possible each night. Attempting to get the drop on 2 (that we know of) armed suspects puts that plan under quite alot of stress.
Lastly- youd better pray to whoever it is that you pray to that you get a textbook CNS shot because if not you have pretty much guaranteed that the poor slob on the business end of that gun will get a chest full of lead and you just got yourself into an unnecessary gun battle.

In all of the various training on everything from HAZMAT to FA ive had, the biggest sticking point is to not make yourself a victim in the process of helping another as then you have just become a victim yourself and now part of the problem.

ex_dsmr wrote:In all of the various training on everything from HAZMAT to FA ive had, the biggest sticking point is to not make yourself a victim in the process of helping another as then you have just become a victim yourself and now part of the problem.