Aggravated Robbery in Houston

[TX Rancher]

Put me down in the 223/5.56 category. I don't have any neighbors within range, so I don't worry much about a stray shot traveling too far and hitting a bystander. My house rifle is a Mini-14... short barrel so it's relatively easy to use in the confines of a house.

For those of you planning on using an AR, don't forget that if you zeroed it at 25 yards (pretty standard), it will hit ~3 in low at close ranges like you'll see in a house. Forget that and the hostage situation someone else mentioned could turn out really bad

As for the shotty, I figure I should get one and practice. Even if I decide not to use it for my house long gun, it would come in handy for 3 gun matches

[AV8R]

My vote goes to the 12ga. It has the best stopping power, versatility, and performance-to-cost ratio of anything you can get for home defense. With birdshot, which is quite effective up close, the safety of other family members in the home is assured. Slugs have more than enough accuracy for a hostage shot if you're up to it, even out to 75 yards or so. If someone is inside your home and coming for you, you would always trade whatever you had in your hand for a 12ga. My 870 has a laser, which helps with those awkward positions, as well.

[stevie_d_64]

Geez! Four of 'em? I hate those odds. Glad this turned out okay for the residents.
It looks like the criminal element is starting to utilize the "strength in numbers" philosophy. I really need to get a rifle. I wouldn't want to face four men in a dark home with just my pistol.

Careful now...Mr. Stupid may come in here and tell us we need to bunker inside a room somewhere in our homes, call the police, and wait for them to help you...Just let the bad guys have their way inside your own home, and you'll be better off...

[kauboy]

You just couldn't leave well enough alone, could ya stevie?

[seamusTX]

Shotgun has:
...
2. Heavy recoil, very difficult for female to shoot
...
4. No way to take precision shot

I don't want to argue for the sake of arguing, but I feel the need to offer my contrary opinion.

I think any healthy adult can learn to handle a shotgun and not be affected by recoil. It may take appropriate instruction and equipment, but I've seen plenty of women who can do it.

The shot charge of a choked shotgun forms a tight group at typical defensive distances, maybe a foot in diameter at 7 yards. Adding the inherent accuracy of a long gun, compared to a handgun, the shotgun can be quite accurate.

Everyone needs to make their own decisions about self-defense, but they shouldn't dismiss the shotgun based on generalizations.

- Jim

[G.C.Montgomery]

For those of you planning on using an AR, don't forget that if you zeroed it at 25 yards (pretty standard), it will hit ~3 in low at close ranges like you'll see in a house. Forget that and the hostage situation someone else mentioned could turn out really bad

Along the same line for those looking at other systems, remember other rifles have entirely unique offsets. My FAL for instance, has an offset of only about an inch and a half at the muzzle and it decreases steadily to my 50 yard zero.

FWIW, I use a 50 yard IBZ zero on all my rifles. On the AR that mean "headshots" don't require and hold-over or hold-under out to 280yards. On my FAL, the distance shortens just a bit to about 250 yards. The point again being, KNOW YOUR OFFSET! Develop, document and memorize the "dope" for your rifle. This goes double for all you guys putting $6500 worth or mega-blaster 5000 rails, flashlights, lasers, scopes and night-vision on your $900 AR15's...Talk about ghetto-fabulous!

Oh, and +1 on Shotgun accuracy. Stupid, go watch the West Houston IDPA guys shoot their 3-gun match on the second Saturday of the month. Shooters routinely make 50+ yard head-shots with slugs and standard bead sights. And remember that shot patterns typically only spread 1-inch for every yard traveled downrange. So a head-shot, even with buckshot, isn't unreasonable or out of the question at close range.

[casselthief]

gitcha one ah deese!!!

[The Marshal]

I have found that in high stress shooting, recoil and noise are non-factors.

I shot a buck last November with my 7MM Mag while inside a plywood box the size of a telephone booth. Never heard the shot, nor felt the recoil. Only thing I remember is was getting the scope back on target in what seemed like .0423 milliseconds after cycling the bolt. Whew!! (Clean heart shot. Dropped so fast I thought I missed him!)

Last time I went to the range with Mr Benelli Nova, I fired off old LEAD shot High Brass #4's at clay. Not only hit them, but did it consistently. Had I been shooting those loads at a paper target, it woulda hurt.

My point is that IF you are in a high stress situation, you will be so narrow-focused on the threat that recoil and noise (shooting inside a confined room) will be the least of the thoughts running through your head!

I have a Kimber on duty, I feel the gun will do what I want it to do, namely stop any intrusion into our ROOM, as the police will have to clear the house. Since I have no children, this is a great option for me.
Were it different, then I would not hesitate and switch to a "Room Broom" tactical shotgun. Easy to get for under $300, these will get the job done, when you want to clear a hallway and not worry about lining up the sights...

~Bill

[AV8R]

+1, and you will appreciate a nice, solid, five-pound trigger pull as well. That's about the minimum I can feel when the adrenaline hits.

[G.C.Montgomery]

gitcha one ah deese!!!

A customer came into Top Gun with one of those earlier this year. He let a bunch of us try it. The guy saw "From Dusk 'til Dawn" and decided he had to have one. So he paid his $5, "any other weapon" tax and filled out the necessary forms with the ATF.

The experience went like this...It HURTS using #7 and smaller bird shot. 00-Buck borders on insanity. When offered 3-inch Magnum loads to try, I decided I'd had enough already and returned the weapon to it's owner.

[Stupid]

Saying taking head shot beyond 50 yards with shotgun is same as saying that someone can put a coin inside your brain within 10 feet with their bare hands.

Yes, it can be done, but most of us are NOT trained professionals. In the highly stressed situation, one must choose the most handy weapon for him/her.

The following link is not the first one that convinced me to take an AR over a shotgun in any given day.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot18.htm

Again, it's your life and you do whatever you want, before it goes into a battle of AR v.s. shotgun, I just want to say, 30 rd of .223 are much better than 8rd of whatever shot out of a shotgun.

[seamusTX]

... 30 rd of .223 are ... better than 8rd of whatever shot out of a shotgun.

Where do your rifle rounds go when they miss the target?

Where do they go after they hit the target?

FWIW, hunters take deer with shotgun slugs at 50 to 100 yards regularly; but that's irrelevant to home defense.

- Jim

[Stupid]

You need to be well informed on the performance of .223 and shotgun slugs.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

Again, this was not the first that helped me.

.223 has much less chance of over penetration once it hits something, even less than a 9mm.

... 30 rd of .223 are ... better than 8rd of whatever shot out of a shotgun.

Where do your rifle rounds go when they miss the target?

Where do they go after they hit the target?

FWIW, hunters take deer with shotgun slugs at 50 to 100 yards regularly; but that's irrelevant to home defense.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

You need to be well informed on the performance of .223 and shotgun slugs.

I do not advocate the use of shotgun slugs for home defense, except in circumstances such as bear attacks.

Buckshot penetrates drywall, but it disperses and is not likely to cause fatal injuries after the first wall (two layers of drywall in modern houses).

You also need to consider the effects of a miss if the target is in a window or open doorway. Rifle rounds travel much farther than buckshot.

- Jim

[lrb111]

I just want to say, 30 rd of .223 are much better than 8rd of whatever shot out of a shotgun.

My shotgun is loaded with 6 3" 000 buckshot. Each pellet is about a .30 calber. 10 per shell. Or 60 pieces of lead.

Look at the box-o-truth site for the shooting test through a metal door. Especially the buckshot.