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Given the cost to defend yourself if your trust paperwork is found to be "defective" by the ATF (which they can do even AFTER they "sign off" on it), I'd not try to short-cut the process with some cheap "work-around" - but that's just me. Don't recall the details, but there WAS such an occurence in the recent past, where the guy had done a "DIY" trust, then the ATF came back and said it wasn't valid....to say it cost him MUCH more than he saved would be an understatement.

I may not even use software. I do plan to do an extensive amount of research. To me, that is more entertaining than having $400 in my pocket

TexasRedneck wrote:Given the cost to defend yourself if your trust paperwork is found to be "defective" by the ATF (which they can do even AFTER they "sign off" on it), I'd not try to short-cut the process with some cheap "work-around" - but that's just me. Don't recall the details, but there WAS such an occurence in the recent past, where the guy had done a "DIY" trust, then the ATF came back and said it wasn't valid....to say it cost him MUCH more than he saved would be an understatement.

I wonder what circumstances occurred that made the BATFE look into this person's trust in the first place? They (BATFE NFA Branch) has never said anything about my trusts when I send copies with my Form 1's or 4's (hence my previous assertion that it is not their responsibility to determine the legality. I think as long as I do not use an NFA item (suppressor and/or SBR) in my home for self-defense then I'm probably OK. They have waaay to much to do to bother with than my revocable living trust. I would say that over 80% of the customers that we have do trusts and to my knowledge, not one has ever had any issues.

At some point I will need to modify my existing trust to add my kids, so at that point I may have a lawyer do a once over on it.

Rug

<shrug>

Makes me no never-mind. Not here to argue or challenge....only know that what drove me to have mine done by an attorney experienced with it was when I found out about the other guy having the problem. Have a feeling he wishes he'd have done it differently, too....

TexasRedneck wrote:<shrug>

Makes me no never-mind. Not here to argue or challenge....only know that what drove me to have mine done by an attorney experienced with it was when I found out about the other guy having the problem. Have a feeling he wishes he'd have done it differently, too....

No problem...I hope I will not be a test case...

IIRC, he ended up getting attorneys involved to straighten things out, and was ultimately successful. Key thing is, though, like any other remedial remedy - it doubtless cost more after the fact to correct the issues.

I have been told by a friend of mine that when he setup a trust for his SBR and suppressor he used some outfit called "Gun Trust Lawyer" who referred him to an attorney in his state that had experience on the very subject (He's not here in Texas so I don't know if their service would help). He claimed the attorney actually discounted the process as it was referred from the outfit and he essentially had the documents ready to go with a few blanks needing to be filled in. This is just second hand info, but let me know what you end up doing and how it turns out as one of my new years resolutions will be to get a class 3 item...

TexasRedneck wrote:IIRC, he ended up getting attorneys involved to straighten things out, and was ultimately successful. Key thing is, though, like any other remedial remedy - it doubtless cost more after the fact to correct the issues.

do you have any kind of reference for said person?

or verification?

zero4o3 wrote: do you have any kind of reference for said person?
or verification?

Not at hand. This was several years ago.....but then again, it's up to you - research it for yourself, or ignore it if you wish. Not being hardnosed here, but to be honest it sounds like you're challenging my veracity - and I've no reason to lie.

TexasRedneck wrote:

zero4o3 wrote: do you have any kind of reference for said person?
or verification?

Not at hand. This was several years ago.....but then again, it's up to you - research it for yourself, or ignore it if you wish. Not being hardnosed here, but to be honest it sounds like you're challenging my veracity - and I've no reason to lie.

I have seen this example on several forums. The ONLY pages I have ever seen to offer "proof" are those of lawyers trying to sell trusts. IMHO it is a scare tactic used by lawyers to drum up business that turned into an urban legend. All info I have found on this have been either blog posts on websites or forum posts from attorneys with no links to actually prove it happened. TexasRedneck, I'm not challenging your veracity, just the truth of the story.

I am skeptical too without seeing evidence. Not to put anyone's veracity on the table - I just don't take people's words for things. I'm sure there's been sometime in your life where someone you had no reason to distrust told you one thing, only to find out it was wrong later.

Understood and appreciate the reply - really do.

Thing is, it's been 2-3 years ago when I found it, but bottom line is that I found the entire discussion, including the guy involved. He did ultimately resolve it, but it wasn't cheap compared to having done it via an experienced attorney the first time around. Hadn't looked for it lately -and yeah - they're on that thing all over the place on the various attorney websites, sheesh!

Thing is, I don't even recall which gun site it was on - if I get some free time this weekend, I'll see if I can't dig it up again.

My thought is that even if I somehow manage to fill out the forms and set my trust up on my own, or through the help of a discount, non-lawyer outfit, I'd still always wonder if it was all 100% correct and if I'd get hosed sometime down the line. To me, paying an attourney to do it for me is worth the piece of mind and not having to worry. I'm not a fan of lawyers in many respects, but one that is charging me for something I can actually see a benefit in I'm okay with.

TexasRedneck wrote:

zero4o3 wrote: do you have any kind of reference for said person?
or verification?

Not at hand. This was several years ago.....but then again, it's up to you - research it for yourself, or ignore it if you wish. Not being hardnosed here, but to be honest it sounds like you're challenging my veracity - and I've no reason to lie.

I didn’t mean any offense to you, just like anything on the internet, I like to have the original article / first hand evidence when trying to decided how I want to take information, that being said it seems to me that if you go through any of these people who specialize in trusts, they are not hand writing your document its preset and they fill in the information specific to you, so how is getting a form that’s setup any different is what I was wondering. if the original incident there might have been specifics as to what his problems where and why, without that info it all seems like a moot point to me. maybe he didnt include anyone in his trust and was lettign some one else use the weapons ? its jsut hard to say with that little to go off of

dont worry about digging it up if its going to require any effort, I can do some google searches and see what I come up with on my own.

TexasRedneck wrote:Understood and appreciate the reply - really do.

Thing is, it's been 2-3 years ago when I found it, but bottom line is that I found the entire discussion, including the guy involved. He did ultimately resolve it, but it wasn't cheap compared to having done it via an experienced attorney the first time around. Hadn't looked for it lately -and yeah - they're on that thing all over the place on the various attorney websites, sheesh!

Thing is, I don't even recall which gun site it was on - if I get some free time this weekend I'll see if I can't dig it up again.

It's here and on several other "NFA Trust Lawyers'" websites. The article even states that the link to the article was taken down because of doubts about the truth of the matter. I had an attorney draft my trust so I would have someone to turn to when I have questions about paperwork and forms. To be honest; I drew up a trust on Willmaker before going to the lawyer and the verbage is almost identical. Had I known how similar they are I might not have gone with a lawyer.