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Last week I picked up on one of these http://www.kimberamerica.com/press/2006 ... -tools.php

as another possibility for "next-to-last resort".

Fairly new, "Guardian Angel" - marketed by Kimber, no less. No opportunity to "test" it yet. Any volunteers?

Best I can tell from reading the directions, it puts maybe an 8" to 12" diameter OC payload out to approx. 4 yards. Somewhat of an "OC derringer with a full choke". Definitely not a tool for "spray and pray" ...

Venus Pax wrote:We do need to consider how we will defend ourselves in the absence of a handgun.

I would put forward that the absence of a firearm is not the sole reason to go to alternative weapons.

The firearm is not the ultimate answer to any and all circumstances. Bring it out too early, and you could be in legal trouble, wait too long and the delay time to bringing it into play could get you killed.

Too often we as CHL holders seem to depend on our firearms as “The answer�. True, it’s a great weapon, but I feel we should be able to respond with different levels of restraint/force.

For example, when I stop to get gas it’s usually very early in the morning (~5:30) and I’m almost always the only one at the pump. I have my pistol in its holster, and I carry a folding knife that I can get to quickly.

But I don’t rely on either of them as my first line a defense. I typically pick up the window washing tool and start on the windows. If someone approached that made me uncomfortable, I would first ask them to stop advancing as the first step in my response. The next would be to threaten them with the window tool. The next time you have one in your hand think about how it would feel to get hit with the narrow end.

I think you should also get better with open hands/feet/knees/head/elbows/teeth/fingernails/etc. Depending on how close the person is before they represent a recognizable threat, you could find yourself in a situation at grappling distance where the delay in reaching for your weapon could get you very dead.

The best weapon you have is not your gun, knife, OC, flashlight, or club, it’s your mind set, everything else is just a tool. If you have a warrior mind set your chance for survival increases dramatically and anything you can lay your hands on becomes a weapon. In this I find myself in complete agreement with TXI.

If I was intent on doing someone harm the warrior with a rock in their hand would worry me more then a sheep with a gun…

I believe this was truly brought to life in the movie "United 93". As we all know, the passengers decided they would fight back. That decision is not made lightly with the fear of death so close. Yet they did. In the director's depiction, they grabbed anything they could. Knifes and forks from the stewardess' compartments, boiling water, and my favorite, the fire extinguisher. The "everything can be a weapon" mentality was easily seen. And when the final blow was dealt to the skull of the "bomb" wearer, you knew just how effective a solid fire extinguisher could be. Once the "warrior mentality" is achieved, your enemy will fear you. You physically take on a different appearance. Your shoulders drop, your chin lowers, your face goes pale as the blood rushes to your extremities in preparation for battle, and your eyes tell the cold black truth. This is a physiological reaction in response to the mental state of a victim turned warrior. It is unavoidable. It cannot be controlled. These are clear-cut, psychologically proven, signs that the actor is in full attack mode. In the case of flight 93, those terrorists knew they were going to die at the hands of those passengers as soon as they looked into the eyes of the charging mob.

On a side note, if you ever witness these signs in another person, get as far away from them as possible. Something bad is about to happen and you definitely don't want to be a part of it.

The sections labeled "Cold Stare" and "Blank Stare" in this article refer to these changes too: Better Vision (page 2)

txinvestigator wrote: 9/11 happened because the victim's in the planes did what they were conditioned to do. They complied.

Yep, those planes weren't hijacked with boxcutters. It was a lot deeper than that; our mindset was hijacked. Passengers now know what they were risking by inaction.

With enough commitment and will, almost any tool will do.


Regarding the class TXI referred too, it may have some merit. It could stress awareness, avoiding task fixation, and how physical locations affect attacks to name a few. We did something similar in Karate, abeit in a more controlled environment, and some people that did fine in the gym, froze up in the darkness, other's found their fighting spirit there.

I am a firm believer that you have to work within the context of criminal assault,ie... the way criminals attack people, where this happens and how they commit them. That's what gets lost sometimes by traditional martial arts and self defense classes.

To understand you must test.

good post fm2. completely.

fm2 wrote:To understand you must test.

Hence airsoft and working out with a partner. Nothing like getting shot several times in a row to convince you that "special" move is not a good idea

Good discussion...all opinions have been well-stated and have merit. Anything can be used as a weapon/"some" protection against a weapon. One of the things that has been touched on here but not brought to the forefront of conversation is that we all need to be aware of our surroundings at all time. Not only to be able to see a possible attack coming but also to be able to get away/stay & fight/whatever.

Years of training for different scenarios has taught me this: you can never prepare for everything. Someone is always going to do something you haven't seen before. You can try but ...

It is also well documented that when in a "high-stress" situations, most people will get tunnel vision. This is something I had to "beat" out of my rookie team members.

Bottom line, think outside the box and keep your head on a swivel. Anything can be used with a little thought.

MTICop wrote:One of the things that has been touched on here but not brought to the forefront of conversation is that we all need to be aware of our surroundings at all time. Not only to be able to see a possible attack coming but also to be able to get away/stay & fight/whatever.

Awareness is probably the most important aspect. Start thinking/acting strategically as soon as you suspect something.

MTICop wrote: Years of training for different scenarios has taught me this: you can never prepare for everything. Someone is always going to do something you haven't seen before.

I like to stay on the conceptual level as much as possible, and not get wrapped up in trying to get a certain technique employed.