TexasCHLforum.com

...did you know his brother the sherrif? Dag Nabbit...

speedsix wrote:...did you know his brother the sherrif? Dag Nabbit...

Lol.... Dagget was the lawyer the girl in True Grit kept talking about.

If it was determined to be a legal use of a firearm, you are immune from civil prosecution in Texas. Use "Liver Rippers" or "Brain Blenders" all you want. If it was determined to be an unlawful use of a firearm, the type of ammo you used will be the least of your worries.

Some of these CHL instructors need better training smarts.

It's different in California. If you use anything more dense than a puff of air, recycled from Unicorn sneezes, you can be hit with a civil suit regardless of criminal findings.

wgoforth wrote:

speedsix wrote:...did you know his brother the sherrif? Dag Nabbit...

Lol.... Dagget was the lawyer the girl in True Grit kept talking about.

...of course I knew that...after I googled it...

wgoforth wrote:In CHL Instructor class, the DPS instructors were telling that we should be careful what kind of ammo we carry. That names like "Black Talon...It Tears Them Up" and "Zombie Max" could get us in trouble in a real shooting, as it could show we intentionally wanted to do extra damage. Question: Is anyone REALLY concerned with being sued over what kind of ammo they carry?

NO, and Id by a beer to someone who can site a case that was won, enhanced, tilted in favor when one lawyer introduced into evidence "killer ammo" It may be out there and I'd love to read all about it.

Stopping the threat in the way we discuses it here mostly involves the use of deadly force. Once I've decided to use deadly force, the likely outcome is, said force will be deadly.

Dead is dead.... if sued, or charged with a crime..the charge will involve a dead person, not a more dead one, or extra dead.. just dead.

If it's a real concern they could have easily cited a dozen cases where it was an issue. If they didn't cite cases then usually that means they're talking out of the other end of their digestive tract.

Just makes you wonder why they throw out more needless stuff like that. I'm really not too concerned about what a bad guy thinks.

OldCannon wrote:If it was determined to be a legal use of a firearm, you are immune from civil prosecution in Texas.

Are you sure?
Can you post the legislation? I have heard that too, but have never been able to confirm in the law.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /CP.83.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Thread/discussion on it,
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50485" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Black Talon media hype was driven by claims it was 'cop killer' ammo that had 'special powers' because of the 'evil' black coating (Lubalox) that would penetrate any body amour out there. Additionally it was designed for killing and would kill you more dead than other bullets, blah blah. It was all contrived by lawyers and the press. Olin chose to pull it from the market in 1993 after they were sued by a family member of someone killed by a Black Talon round in the Long Island Railroad mass killing that year and because of all of the negative press they were getting about the ammo and its magical properties. The bullet beneath the Lubalox coating is the same one used today in the Winchester SXT (Same 'Xact Thing) ammo.

What I think the DPS is trying to do in their classes, but doing a poor job of explaining apparently, is that ANYTHING with a name like Zombie Max, Black Talon, Super Kill Plus, DRT (Dead Right There),yada yada ammo will be used by anyone trying to hang you out on a shooting. That is a common tactic. Lawyers are going to try and twist every angle they can to show you as a bad person just looking to kill someone, including saying your mother raised you to be a stone cold killer because she let you watch the Coyote try to take out the Road Runner Saturday after Saturday when you were a kid.

DPS was also saying that non-compliant signs may need to be headed also, as they do convey the intent of the property owner, and that a prosecutor in a particular locale may decide to push their luck and charge you for criminal trespass and then let the Judge make the decision.

It all goes back to knowing what is legal and what is not. While you may get caught in a lawsuit, as long as you were within your rights and following the law, you should win out in the end. At that point you just have to go back and sue for restitution on false arrest. I personally am not going to live in a world of paranoia and 'what if'.

Now, am I going to carry Zombie Max ammo? Probably not. That is not unless the Apocalypse happens in November and I need to take some really good head shots.

Keith B wrote:kill you more dead

Reminds me of Sheldon Cooper explaining that wrong is an absolute, not subject to gradation and so "More wrong" made no sense

"Ooh, Sheldon, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. –More wrong?

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=F_1zoX5Ax9U[/youtube]

Keith B wrote:The Black Talon media hype was driven by claims it was 'cop killer' ammo that had 'special powers' because of the 'evil' black coating (Lubalox) that would penetrate any body amour out there. Additionally it was designed for killing and would kill you more dead than other bullets, blah blah. It was all contrived by lawyers and the press. Olin chose to pull it from the market in 1993 after they were sued by a family member of someone killed by a Black Talon round in the Long Island Railroad mass killing that year and because of all of the negative press they were getting about the ammo and its magical properties. The bullet beneath the Lubalox coating is the same one used today in the Winchester SXT (Same 'Xact Thing) ammo.

What I think the DPS is trying to do in their classes, but doing a poor job of explaining apparently, is that ANYTHING with a name like Zombie Max, Black Talon, Super Kill Plus, DRT (Dead Right There),yada yada ammo will be used by anyone trying to hang you out on a shooting. That is a common tactic. Lawyers are going to try and twist every angle they can to show you as a bad person just looking to kill someone, including saying your mother raised you to be a stone cold killer because she let you watch the Coyote try to take out the Road Runner Saturday after Saturday when you were a kid.

DPS was also saying that non-compliant signs may need to be headed also, as they do convey the intent of the property owner, and that a prosecutor in a particular locale may decide to push their luck and charge you for criminal trespass and then let the Judge make the decision.

It all goes back to knowing what is legal and what is not. While you may get caught in a lawsuit, as long as you were within your rights and following the law, you should win out in the end. At that point you just have to go back and sue for restitution on false arrest. I personally am not going to live in a world of paranoia and 'what if'.

Now, am I going to carry Zombie Max ammo? Probably not. That is not unless the Apocalypse happens in November and I need to take some really good head shots.

I'm sure your right... Funny thing is, Zombie Max is exact same thing as Hornady's Critical Defense, which all my guns are loaded with. Except the the ZM has a green rubber nose and the CD has red. Neat marketing trick for $2 more per box.

RPB wrote:

Keith B wrote:kill you more dead

Reminds me of Sheldon Cooper explaining that wrong is an absolute, not subject to gradation and so "More wrong" made no sense

"Ooh, Sheldon, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. –More wrong?

I love Big Bang Theory. Great show.

Keith B wrote:

RPB wrote:

Keith B wrote:kill you more dead

Reminds me of Sheldon Cooper explaining that wrong is an absolute, not subject to gradation and so "More wrong" made no sense

"Ooh, Sheldon, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. –More wrong?

I love Big Bang Theory. Great show.

Good to know, Walowitz